What major points of LDS (priesthood/temples/spirit world/polygamy/etc) are derived from the Book of Mormon?

[jfro18]

This might be an odd question, but I was talking to my wife yesterday morning and one of the things I brought up is that the Book of Mormon by itself is actually pretty bland doctrine-wise. I said the things that bother me the most about the church stem from Joseph Smith and what he did *after* the BoM was released.

She said that's not true, that the temple is mentioned in the BoM, that the priesthood restoration is from Alma 13 mentioning Melchizedek, and that a lot of what came after the BoM was because it was written there.

As I've been doing more and more research I have just not come across that at all - Alma 13 is the one that is hard to explain away because they do mention that M was a high priest, but they never mention that there is an order of the priesthood named after him nor do they reference that it will need to be restored.

Polygamy, temples, etc never are (unless I'm missing something) mentioned in a way that matches what the church has done with them. Even the trinitarian view was in the *original* BoM before they changed it to match the evolving views of JS.

I know there are other issues too, but it's too early to come up with a better list of what is (to me) awful about the church and how it really doesn't match the BoM in any way.

Anyway, just curious what others thought there - seemed like an interesting thing to me esp since so many say "Yeah JS probably lied about some things but it's all about the BoM for me."

[Not Buying It]

“Families are Forever” - nowhere is it mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Think about it - this is the one concept that binds members to the Church more than any other, and there isn’t even a hint of it in the Book of Mormon. It never registers with members for some reason, but wouldn’t something so integral to LDS doctrine be at least obliquely referenced in the BOM?

The BOM is a mess in terms of the nature of the Godhead - probably because Joseph Smith’s ideas were always evolving, and what he thought when he wrote the BOM got super-ceded by something he thought later. He wasn’t always very consistent.

Word of Wisdom? Nephite soldiers testing their liquor on Lamanite prisoners before drinking it themselves in case it is poisoned are guilty of both a Word of Wisdom violation and war crimes.

How about some of the stuff that is In the Book of Mormon that isn’t in the Church today? Like Church leaders who use the spirit to confound their critics? Apostates struck dumb and dead by Church leaders using the power of God? Whole crowds of people fainting at the power of the word of God coming from Church leaders? Church leaders who solve murders using the power of the spirit? The problem isn’t just what is in the Church today but isn’t in the BOM - it is also what is in the BOM that isn’t in the Church today.

[TestimonyLost]

I think the book's mere existence and its evidence in the eyes of a believer that God still speaks to man is the primary doctrine it supports.

As to the Melchizedek reference, well that's biblical and hardly unique to the Book of Mormon. Hebrews mentions that Jesus is "a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec" and goes on to refer to Jesus as a "high priest."

Sure, temples are mentioned in the BoM (again, like in the Bible) but no details are given as to what happens in them other than in Nephi where they are patterned after the temple of Solomon which is 100% different than the Mormon temples today.

I like NBI's point that the godhead of the BoM is different than Mormon belief. Pretty clearly trinitarian.

It's almost like the writer of the Book of Mormon had studied the KJV Bible and used it as the primary source material. Almost.

All that said, I don't really recommend going point-by-point with your wife. I've been knee deep in a mixed-faith marriage for several years now and I still have moments like yesterday where I got triggered by an Old Testament lesson and went off to my wife about how awful and inconsistent God is presented in the scriptures. Was I right? Sure. But the whole thing was entirely unproductive.

[slavereeno]

When DW and I were at the beginning of my faith transition a little over a year ago, I read the entire BoM in 4 days. Its astounding what it doesn't have in it.

Endowment, sealing, anointing, second anointing, garments, Baptism for the Dead, Word of Wisdom, bishops, Priesthood authority by laying on of hands (how did Alma get his authority?), (in the original text) a non-Trinitarian view of the godhead, three degrees of glory, polygamy, law of consecration (at least not explicitly spelled out), Kolob, Celestial Kingdom, Terrestrial Kingdom, Telestial Kingdom, Relief Society, Primary, Young Women, Young Men or Sunday School.

I am quite convinced that you could create an entirely different religion off of the BoM than the modern LDS church that could jive much better with the book.

[jfro18]

All that said, I don't really recommend going point-by-point with your wife. I've been knee deep in a mixed-faith marriage for several years now and I still have moments like yesterday where I got triggered by an Old Testament lesson and went off to my wife about how awful and inconsistent God is presented in the scriptures. Was I right? Sure. But the whole thing was entirely unproductive.

Haha yeah this one is more for me than her. We are just now able to talk without it getting overheated, but I am just doing research on the side so if she wants to talk I'm prepared.

It truly is amazing how the BoM mirrors the Bible so well and then after the BoM the church is just taken in an entirely different direction. Almost as if he was making it up as he went along.

[græy]

I apologize in advance for my rambling, I was just reading about this myself this weekend. I still have no final conclusions.

As for Alma 13 and Melchizedek...

Modern bible scholars are divided as to whether Melchizedek was even a real person at all. His name literally translates into "King of righteousness" and nearly every verse that references the name (title) is used in regards to people acting as or being like unto this "King of righteousness", but not actually describing him directly. In Hebrews 7, while it does say that he met Abraham after a battle and Abraham paid tithes to him, it also states that he (Melchizedek) had no father, mother, or children and goes on to describe him as "having neither beginning of days, nor end of life." (A bit of Nicene creed-speak going on there.)

Additionally, several of the OT verses which refer to Melchizedek are surrounded by anachronistic words or phrases (i.e. El Elyon)indicating that they were inserted at a much much later date.

In the end, it sounds to me like most scholars outside of mormonism consider Melchizedek to be either a title referring directly to Christ, a nickname for pre-mortal (OT) Christ, or some sort of angel belonging to the same order as the Son of God. Only very few of them believe him to be or have been a literal person.

In Joseph Smith's day however, there was a much more literal interpretation of Melchizedek's existence and personage.

Alma 13:17 describes Mel. as being King of the Land of Salem. -

Now this Melchizedek was a king over the land of Salem...

There are cities in the Middle East associated with the name Salem, and the name also occasionally seems to refers to Jerusalem so that part could be real. But the source (Heb. 7:2) makes it just as easy to use the translation "peace" for Salem, rather than referring to a physical location. So... not a literal King at all then?

tl;dr - Melchizedek may not be who/what we think he is. JS may have overreached in that interpretation. But if someone is already looking through Mormonism's all-knowing lens, then they already know the truth and actual study/research doesn't matter anyway.

[oliblish]

I remember from a Mormon Expression podcast John once said that it is a good exercise to try to teach the plan of salvation using only scriptures from the Book of Mormon. I thought it was a great point. All the BOM teaches is that after you die you are judged and go to heaven or hell. There is no pre-existence mentioned, no three degrees of glory, it doesn't match at all.

[didyoumythme]

I am quite convinced that you could create an entirely different religion off of the BoM than the modern LDS church that could jive much better with the book.

The BoM is Methodist fan fiction!

[Just This Guy]

One semi-unique Mormon doctrine I can think of that comes from the BOM is baptism at age 8. Moroni is pretty vocal about the evils of infant baptism.

I don't know if you want to get into Native Americans being of Hebrew descent...


Yeah...
What does it say about the real impact of the BOM on the modern church when that I all I cam come up with?

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

One reason the church direction changes after the early BOM era is the conversion of the Isaac Morley family and Sidney Rigdon. Author Daymon Smith talks about how this infusion of Reformed Baptist/Campbellite restorationism shifted the focus of core doctrines. Focus became restoring the one true primitive church with proper authority and organization. The concept of Bishops came from the cambellites, the articles of faith promote Pratt's reformed baptist beliefs and the priesthood structure became more complex and hierarchical. In PP Pratt's autobiography he talks about staying up late with Smith and debating and discussing doctrines often. These new converts changed NY Mormonism to frontier Ohio restorationism.

[Not Buying It]

Recently I met with the bishop to discuss some changes in the way I interact with the Church, not participating in “ministering” being one of them. I was annoyed when he asked if I read the Book of Mormon every day, and later in an email to my wife he said he doesn’t worry about her testimony if she reads the Book of Mormon every day. Really nice fellow, but he’s hung up on reading the BOM every day, probably because you need a constant dose of indoctrination to keep believing in something so ridiculous.

So what would it be like if I read the BOM every day?

• Three chapters in - why did Nephi have to behead Laban? The guy was already passed out drunk, just get his clothes, do your Laban impersonation, get the plates, and get out of town. Better to leave him naked and passed out than headless, and you can accomplish the same thing without getting blood all over you that his servant is sure to notice.
  
  Several more chapters in - dang, the Lamanites are getting dark skin as a curse. Kinda makes God seem like a racist.
  
  Jacob smites Sherem with the power of God - lucky thing prophets today can’t do that!
  
  Later on - so who was sitting around capturing all of King Benjamin’s words on metal plates? Someone did a nice job of capturing several pages of speech verbatim. And why is it the Brethren today aren’t powerful enough with the word of God to make large groups of people all spontaneously faint simultaneously?
  
  Come to think of it, why are people fainting in the BOM all the time because of the power of the word of God, and it never happens today in General Conference? The Brethren today must suck compared to their BOM counterparts.
  
  Wow, Lamoni must have been special, he seems to have had the only chariot in all of North and South America, because no one has ever found any evidence they existed there. Wonder what happened to his?
  
  Horses? Tapirs? What kind of animal are these guys really riding here?
  
  Later - hmmm...tons of battles, thousands of casualties - where did all those swords go?
  
  What, yet another battle where the two leaders of huge armies square off face to face mano a mano? That seems to happen a lot. One time they were even the only last two people left of the entire Jaredite nation - until they collapsed from exhaustion and the first one to wake up chopped the other one’s head off, but then he woke up and didn’t have a head and struggled for breath and tried to get up then collapsed again.
  
  How is it Nephi could solve the Chief Judge’s murder and the Brethren today can’t figure out when they are being hoodwinked by a forger?
  
  Geez, why was Mahonrimoriancumer worried about windows in the barges being dashed in when glass windows wouldn’t even be available for a couple thousand years yet?
  
  Three-hundred and forty four days in the ocean in barges that turn upside down with people and animals and bees in them? Come on, really?
  
  Wow, it is amazing to read how the Nephite civilization was destroyed at the end of the BOM so completely that no trace of it has ever been found by archaeologists. Those Lamanites sure knew how to wipe a civilization off the map.

Yeah, maybe it’s best if I don’t read the BOM every day.

[jfro18]

Recently I met with the bishop to discuss some changes in the way I interact with the Church, not participating in “ministering” being one of them. I was annoyed when he asked if I read the Book of Mormon every day, and later in an email to my wife he said he doesn’t worry about her testimony if she reads the Book of Mormon every day. Really nice fellow, but he’s hung up on reading the BOM every day, probably because you need a constant dose of indoctrination to keep believing in something so ridiculous.

So what would it be like if I read the BOM every day?

This is a great rant - and another thing that once you realize the church is a giant like lie is so bad that it is almost comical.

I don't know what I believe anymore - I want to believe there's a God and I want to believe in the Bible.. but the stories in the Bible are just as insane if you actually think about those too. I used to tell myself they were parables to push a greater message, which is much easier because the Bible didn't have the 'author' running around telling everyone is was a literal history of the people in it.

My wife asked me the other day if I ever listen to podcasts where the people know all the info and still believe, which I have on Mormon Stories and one other. She asked what their explanation was and I told her it was combinations of not wanting to upset family, not wanting to leave the community, etc.

But really... once you see it there is truly no going back. It's like the ending of the Sixth Sense where everything flashes before your eyes and you realize you spent your life believing a complete fraud.

[Hagoth]

She said that's not true, that the temple is mentioned in the BoM, that the priesthood restoration is from Alma 13 mentioning Melchizedek, and that a lot of what came after the BoM was because it was written there.

As pointed out by TestimonyLost, this is borrowed directly from the New Testament:

Hebrews 7:
1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;

17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

Nephi said he built a replica of Solomon's temple, which bears no resemblance to LDS temples, and does not serve the same purpose in any way. Nephi would have built his temple to sacrifice those cattle that never existed in the Americas.

[Hagoth]

Current LDS Plan of Salvation:


Book of Mormon Plan of Salvation:

[wtfluff]

• Three chapters in - why did Nephi have to behead Laban? The guy was already passed out drunk, just get his clothes, do your Laban impersonation, get the plates, and get out of town. Better to leave him naked and passed out than headless, and you can accomplish the same thing without getting blood all over you that his servant is sure to notice.
  
  Several more chapters in - dang, the Lamanites are getting dark skin as a curse. Kinda makes God seem like a racist.
  
  Jacob smites Sherem with the power of God - lucky thing prophets today can’t do that!
  
  Later on - so who was sitting around capturing all of King Benjamin’s words on metal plates? Someone did a nice job of capturing several pages of speech verbatim. And why is it the Brethren today aren’t powerful enough with the word of God to make large groups of people all spontaneously faint simultaneously?
  
  Come to think of it, why are people fainting in the BOM all the time because of the power of the word of God, and it never happens today in General Conference? The Brethren today must suck compared to their BOM counterparts.
  
  Wow, Lamoni must have been special, he seems to have had the only chariot in all of North and South America, because no one has ever found any evidence they existed there. Wonder what happened to his?
  
  Horses? Tapirs? What kind of animal are these guys really riding here?
  
  Later - hmmm...tons of battles, thousands of casualties - where did all those swords go?
  
  What, yet another battle where the two leaders of huge armies square off face to face mano a mano? That seems to happen a lot. One time they were even the only last two people left of the entire Jaredite nation - until they collapsed from exhaustion and the first one to wake up chopped the other one’s head off, but then he woke up and didn’t have a head and struggled for breath and tried to get up then collapsed again.
  
  How is it Nephi could solve the Chief Judge’s murder and the Brethren today can’t figure out when they are being hoodwinked by a forger?
  
  Geez, why was Mahonrimoriancumer worried about windows in the barges being dashed in when glass windows wouldn’t even be available for a couple thousand years yet?
  
  Three-hundred and forty four days in the ocean in barges that turn upside down with people and animals and bees in them? Come on, really?
  
  Wow, it is amazing to read how the Nephite civilization was destroyed at the end of the BOM so completely that no trace of it has ever been found by archaeologists. Those Lamanites sure knew how to wipe a civilization off the map.

That's some of the best BoM paraphrasing I've ever read!