More Sunday School Confusion

[Hagoth]

Today's lesson was a continuation of Jesus' teachings in the New World and a lot of things left me scratching my head. Because Jesus teaches from Malachi our teacher (or maybe the manual) chose to made this a lesson about tithing.

First of all, Jesus again seems to lack some understanding of the Bible. He quotes the verses about not robbing God but, as most preachers do, fails to acknowledge the purpose of this statement, which is found in Malachi 2:1 "And now, you priests, this warning is for you" (NIV). He also defaults to the confusing KJV translation of verse 11: "And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes." Since he was reaching 1500 years into the future for this translation anyway, maybe he should have reached a little bit further to get a more accurate translation (since he seems to be speaking to the Nephites in English anyway, albeit 16th century English), many of which identify the devourer: "I will prevent pests from devouring your crops" (NIV). I can't number the times I have been told that The Devourer is Satan. Nope, just grasshoppers.

Then came the promise that the windows of heaven will be opened and blessings poured out beyond your ability to receive them. The teacher asked, "so why do so many people who don't pay tithing to the church appear to have so much wealth?" The answer was provided by a quote from (I think) Ezra Taft Benson reassuring us that we are temporally blessed by paying tithing and even though others appear to be equally blessed it's just because we can't understand God's timeline. So, scratch-scratch-scratch, God does bless us materially but other people who appear to be even more materially blessed really aren't if you could look at a timeline that is beyond the scope of human understanding?

[LSOF]

"Verse 11" should refer to Malachi iii: 11. Verse 11 of chapter ii talks about Judah's disloyalty.

[didyoumythme]

The use of Malachi to promote payment of tithing in the LDS church concerns me greatly.

Malachi 3:8 - Will a man rob God?
This is directed at the priests that were apparently stealing the tithes given by others.

Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Again, this is directed at the priests. The promises are for the priests if they stop robbing the tithes under their stewardship.

They only care about context when it supports their current understanding.

[Hagoth]

The use of Malachi to promote payment of tithing in the LDS church concerns me greatly.

Malachi 3:8 - Will a man rob God?
This is directed at the priests that were apparently stealing the tithes given by others.

Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Again, this is directed at the priests. The promises are for the priests if they stop robbing the tithes under their stewardship.

They only care about context when it supports their current understanding.

Exactly. The problem is that we never really read anything in context. The lesson manuals are particularly guilty of this. Individual verses are pulled out and used as standalone statements because they appear to say something that the institution wants said. You just have to go back one chapter to Malachi 2:1 to see that the chastisements that follow are specifically aimed at the priests.

The modern equivalent would be God addressing the COB and saying "wherein have ye robbed me? In taking tithes from the poor in my name and using them to expand your franchise without financial transparency to the people whose money you have taken."

[SunbeltRed]

Hagoth- sounds fun!

Have you read the book "Parting The Waters"? It's about how the KJV came to be. Really fascinting.

It's amazing how much of Mormonism depends on proof texted King James Version verses. Once you realize how much is taken out of context it's impossible to un-see.

Also, I never noticed that before that Jesus is using a verse from a future translation that didn't exist yet...It's interesting that Mormons would probably make the claim that the Lord knew exactly how the future translation would be, could precisely plan the details over thousands of years, yet was like: hey that whole polygamy thing, I can't give details on how you should implement that. I mean I'm cool with precisely planning amd crafting human interactions and inspirations for scriptural translations, but how you might treat women, meh, not that important.

[John G.]

The way the church uses these scriptures to teach that you will recieve material and other blessing from paying tithing is very disturbing to me. To me, it seems like fraud! Almost all of the TBM's I knew take this promise very seriously and pay tithing with the expectation that they will receive material blessings in return. If this was a secular scheme, and not protected as a "religion," it would be a financial investment fraud, in my opinion.

To be honest, tithing should be sold as a pure charity, in the spirit of the New Testament, in which there is no expectation of any return for paying it. Tithing should also be done anonymously with no public acclaim for paying it.

Well, that's just my two cents anyway....

[Corsair]

To be honest, tithing should be sold as a pure charity, in the spirit of the New Testment, in which there is no expectation of any return for paying it, Tithing should also be done anonymously with no public acclaim for paying it.

...and this is why you will never be consulted on fiscal policies of the LDS church. Your idea depends entirely on leaving tithing decisions in the hands of people who can carefully and prayerfully consider their level of giving. The "true" church needs tithing settlement, you naive boy.

[achilles]

It's amazing how much of Mormonism depends on proof texted King James Version verses. Once you realize how much is taken out of context it's impossible to un-see

Bingo.

[AzCommando]

To be honest, tithing should be sold as a pure charity, in the spirit of the New Testment, in which there is no expectation of any return for paying it, Tithing should also be done anonymously with no public acclaim for paying it.

...and this is why you will never be consulted on fiscal policies of the LDS church. Your idea depends entirely on leaving tithing decisions in the hands of people who can carefully and prayerfully consider their level of giving. The "true" church needs tithing settlement, you naive boy.

This is a fantastic thread. Years ago the scripture in Malachi was a "memorization scripture" for the Aronic Priesthood and it was burned into my brain and has been there since. I have never been able to "unburn".

I am in so much agreement with you John G. and Corsair. I will also add, Not only does the "true church" need tithing settlement, but many TR holders and temples as well.