New Ministering Program

[Give It Time]

I didn't listen to conference. I saw that there was an announcement about HT/VT being discontinued and I was thrilled! However, when I read the official publication from the Church about what this new program will entail, I'm somewhat less than thrilled.

Sister Bingham said

“rather than leaders just handing out slips of paper,” they make assignments in person in a conversation about the strengths, needs, and challenges of those to whom brothers and sisters minister.

Speaking entirely of my own case, I imaging a conversation to the sister being assigned to me:

Strengths: None
Needs: Many, but she's too proud to ask for help
Challenges: Many

Here is how I see myself:

Strengths: Many
Needs: No more than the next person, but I've got it covered
Challenges: No more than the next person

I recently read about someone's achieving her goals and one of the things she said was the best thing she did was eliminate all books, records and people who gave her the message that she needed to be fixed. This program is about fixing people.

Sister Bingham continues:

And when they consider how to minister, they should ask themselves, “What does he or she need?”

Again, my own particular example. My ministers may come to the conclusion I need to go to the temple. However, the temple is probably one of the worst places on this earth I could go. My ministers aren't going to see that and I will find myself on the receiving end of service and instruction aimed at getting me to the temple. There's a saying that goes, "seek first to understand, then to be understood". This ministering program is entirely about seeking first to be understood, then to be understood.

Ministering does not include a set monthly message in the Church magazines nor a prescribed way to keep in contact, such as in-home, face-to-face visits each month—even though visits are important when they are possible, the leaders explained.

Praise be!

The purpose of ministering, as said of those in Alma’s day, is to “watch over their people, and … nourish them with things pertaining to righteousness”

So...fixing people. Getting them to behave the way you think they should behave.

More from Sister Bingham

“What does ministering look like?” Sister Bingham asked. Ministering looks like going for a walk, getting together for a game night, offering service, serving together, visiting (in person, by phone, online, or via text), delivering a birthday card, and cheering at a soccer game, she said. “It looks like sharing a scripture or quote from a conference talk that would be meaningful to that individual. It looks like discussing a gospel question and sharing testimony to bring clarity and peace. It looks like becoming part of someone’s life and caring about him or her.”

In theory, not bad, and the Mormon tendency to put things off 'til the last minute and do a perfunctory job could do a lot to mitigate this, but it's also possible to get someone really gung-ho who just happens to pop up at some place--perhaps the only place--you feel safe having coffee. Now, if we are talking about an average member this sort of ministering, I think, is excellent. However, if there is someone who wants to disengage or, in my case, control how much they are engaged with the Church, this new program could get sticky.

I'm glad they are involving the youth of both genders. I see that as a good change, particularly if the person they are assigned to minister is an active member who wants this ministering in their lives.

As for reporting, this is what Elder Holland said:

ministering brothers and sisters will no longer report monthly visits, but will instead counsel with leaders in a quarterly “absolutely crucial” ministering interview about the needs and strengths of those they are assigned.

This does not sit well with me, at all. Let the spelunking up each other's backsides begin.

Then there's this from Elder Holland:

A new name, new flexibility, fewer reports will not make one ounce of difference in our service unless we see this as an invitation to care for one another in a bold new holier way

I've noticed the Church leaders seldom instruct us to be bold. Instead, we are instructed to be meek, humble, submissive. However, with this new ministering program, go ahead, be bold! Ask those nosy questions at the soccer game. Share that scripture calling someone wayward to repentance at the grocery store. Make it clear that their young adult children should be on missions at the company picnic.

It's what the Savior would have you do.

[Give It Time]

Yeah, I'm going to double post. While I was writing the original post, I was asking myself where the opportunities lie within this problem. One thing that is terrific about NOM is it is a place where I can get initial anxieties out of my head and then I have room for solutions.

Once those thoughts were out of my head, I asked myself "What would my 90 year-old self tell me to do?"

Well, she'd say, if they show up at your work and you're drinking coffee, so what? The woman who sits behind you at is a strong member and she guzzles green tea and your neighbor down the road toasts the New Year with champagne. If these ministers show up in your life, it only gives them an opportunity to see, first hand, that you've got this. It gives you an opportunity to shine brighter.

Besides, I've told my family and really the ward are the only ones left. It's been very nice to be able to be authentic with my family and I had a co-worker tell me he appreciates knowing I don't believe. He appreciates it, because he has doubts and now he knows he's not alone in having issues with enough things in the Church that it's causing cognitive dissonance for him. I may tell my ward. I give myself that option. However, were I to do it right now, it would feel like explaining myself and I don't have to do that with anyone.

[Unbroken]

I am a little nervous about how this will play out. I hope it works well, however, the quarterly reporting of the program is where the rubber meets the road. The elders quorum presidencies and relief society presidencies are asked to meet with each member and interview them once every three months, then report that to church headquarters the percentage or possibly real names of those they interviewed. This is a much greater burden for them to carry. In a larger Morridor ward this could easily be 10-12 interviews a week. 3-4 interviews per presidency member each week. This is very closely watching the flock. It is crazy to ask each member how the members they are assigned to watch over are doing, it is like an open air informant system. Why not just ask each member directly? This system will do that as well. I can see this also being conducted like a ppi where they ask about prayer, scripture study, testimony on a quarterly basis. So each member is interviewed about their church status and what they think about the status of those in their ministry. Every. Three. Months. I am not sure this is an improvement.

Will the leaders actually do it? I hated PPIs more than about anything else I have done in the church.

[Mormorrisey]

Yeah, I'm going to see how it all plays out before I pass judgement. I can see your fears about it, though, Give it Time. And they are justified.

For my part, I'm going to insist that my "ministers" follow the counsel given them by Sis. Bingham, and give me exactly what I need. And you know what I need? To be largely left alone. That's pretty much it, and they can report it all up the chain should they so desire.

[Red Ryder]

this is just another new program that will agitate the members into action for a few weeks and then the dust will settle back leaving the 10% of members to do 90% of the work. People won’t have to lie about HT and VT numbers now. They’ll just have to report back in a conversation that they are ministering to their same old assigned friends.

Same program; different name.

[wtfluff]

Same program; different name.

I was going to type something similar: Same lame program; Different name. (I hope it's not, but based on past history with LDS-Inc. my hopes are not very high...)


I haven't set foot in my local chapel for years. Resignation really isn't in the cards for me at this point, so if I end up on a new "Ministering" list and they start bugging me, I agree with @Mormorrisey: The best thing they can do for me is to Go Away! (They're not going to bring beer, so yeah, I'll stick with Go Away! Even if they brought beer, I'd still want them to Go Away!)

[slavereeno]

Same program; different name.

This is the conclusion DW and I came up with as well.

I am hoping that with a lower reporting frequency and busy schedules etc. that when the novelty wears off and the apathy kicks in this will be an improvement. Think about how HT/VT was taught in GC, its mostly like seeking a hamburger advertisement photo from a fast food chain. What you get is not as advertised.

[Corsair]

this is just another new program that will agitate the members into action for a few weeks and then the dust will settle back leaving the 10% of members to do 90% of the work. People won’t have to lie about HT and VT numbers now. They’ll just have to report back in a conversation that they are ministering to their same old assigned friends.

Heh, I've been lying about my home teaching for years. This announcement became a "get out of jail free" card for me.

[Hagoth]

I think my ministering is going to look exactly like my Home Teaching. I'll say no to the addition of new families and the one family I do "minister unto" will get a warm loaf of freshly baked bread or cinnamon rolls once a month.

[Jeffret]

I think my ministering is going to look exactly like my Home Teaching. I'll say no to the addition of new families and the one family I do "minister unto" will get a warm loaf of freshly baked bread or cinnamon rolls once a month.

I'll volunteer to be added to that route.

[LostMormon]

how is this new program any different from what HT has evolved into now? from what I understand, they will still be pairing men with men, and women with women, and assigning them family members. The only difference is, they will only be officially "caring" about it once a quarter, instead of monthly. you know darn well the members will wait until about a week before that interview is scheduled to even acknowledge that their assignments exist. Probably go something like this "Hey Mr smith my quarterly interview is coming up, so lets pretend we are best of friends, how are things going anyway? well great! let know if you need anything." the lucky ones may get a plate of cookies or something.

Is that really any different that what happens now? It's been my experience that the valiant HT's show up about once every 3 or 4 months, December we usually get a plate of cookies, or christmas candy in lieu of the visit, most of the time when they do show up, is either a short lesson, or we just shoot the breeze for a few minutes, and the conversation always ends with a rhetorical "let me know if you need anything".

the not so valiant HT like myself doesn't show up at all, and I don't see how this "new" program will give me any more incentive. I just hope this quarterly interview doesn't turn into a massive guilt trip session.

[Palerider]

I think my ministering is going to look exactly like my Home Teaching. I'll say no to the addition of new families and the one family I do "minister unto" will get a warm loaf of freshly baked bread or cinnamon rolls once a month.

Ooooowhh,

Can you come to my place?

[mooseman]

How can you know its already failed? Ive seen multiple tbms and active liberal mormons make the same "different name, same idea" comment. For once, membership seems to see what it is...even if they think its "revelation"

[MerrieMiss]

Yeah, I'm going to see how it all plays out before I pass judgement. I can see your fears about it, though, Give it Time. And they are justified.

For my part, I'm going to insist that my "ministers" follow the counsel given them by Sis. Bingham, and give me exactly what I need. And you know what I need? To be largely left alone. That's pretty much it, and they can report it all up the chain should they so desire.

I can see this also being conducted like a ppi where they ask about prayer, scripture study, testimony on a quarterly basis. So each member is interviewed about their church status and what they think about the status of those in their ministry. Every. Three. Months. I am not sure this is an improvement.
Will the leaders actually do it? I hated PPIs more than about anything else I have done in the church.

What really irks me is the quarterly reports. I do not want to be bothered every quarter. In time I am sure this will go the way that the old HT/VT went (apathy!), but right now everyone is pumped up with the "new" program. I don't want to be bothered every quarter, I want a less effusive ministering sister than I currently have, and mostly I want to be left alone. I'm getting really tired of the church making everything more annoying than it already is.

[Jeffret]

There are some possibilities this new program could be an improvement and be more egalitarian. The existing VT / HT structure comprised duplication. The HTs visited everyone in the ward and then the VTs also visited all the women again. If you put it all together and just have a ministering program, you don't have to maintain separate programs for men (families, everyone) and women (individually). You can just implement to the ministering according to a person's needs, without so much regard to gender. YW can participate at the same level as the YM. It could be a more efficient, more effective, more egalitarian program.

But, it's really hard to change culture. And it's tough to change human prejudice and nature. It's awfully hard to believe that the GAs are making this change to push a decrease in patriarchy. They're not interested in an egalitarian approach. They're wholly convinced that the men, themselves, have to be in charge. It's hard to see how this new program could inadvertently create a system amount of equality. The details of its implementation probably won't allow it.

Overall, probably nothing much will change. People aren't going to suddenly have the time for ministering that they lacked for HT. They'll continue to procrastinate or ignore it. Collecting the info will continue to be too cumbersome and daunting. New name but probably not much will change. The one thing that could indicate some real change is if they truly start making assignments or plans without gender being the first consideration.

[Not Buying It]

If I’m invited to “minister”, I plan to opt out. I know how to say “no” if I have to. I should have said “no” to home teaching, but I have since learned my lesson.

[slavereeno]

What really irks me is the quarterly reports. I do not want to be bothered every quarter. In time I am sure this will go the way that the old HT/VT went (apathy!), but right now everyone is pumped up with the "new" program. I don't want to be bothered every quarter, I want a less effusive ministering sister than I currently have, and mostly I want to be left alone. I'm getting really tired of the church making everything more annoying than it already is.

In our stake we were supposed to have bi-annual ppi's already. With the men-folk its pretty easy to duck these, I haven't been to a PPI with an EQP for something like 8 years. In our ward the relief society is actually way better at tenaciously following through so DW will not slip by quite so easily. I think they will try to do the PPIs at first, for sure, so I am likely to get wrangled into one or two this year. I would guess though, that by 2020 many a men could easily go a year or two without a sit-down ppi.

[Give It Time]

So many great comments!

I have a feeling we won't be able to say no to this.

One thing that had me hopeful about this was one of the reasons stated for not letting children of parents in gay marriages join the church was there was an HT/VT record generated for that individual and home visits in those circumstances could be awkward. I saw this as a possible work around for letting children in those families join the church, if that is what they chose.

However, taking a look at the program more closely, I doubt that will happen.

Jeffret has some of the same interpretations as I do. It looks like this will be headed up by the older men in the Elders Quorum and they will be working under the Bishop. This sounds like a demotion for the Relief Society President and really a bad thing for the women in the church. This means that women will have to go through not just one, but two layers of men to be heard.

The comments about the PPIs every three months going either way are very good. They could get very intense. I think it will be a good time to practice our broken record conversational technique. Everything's fine, we're all fine, I'm fine. However, I have an HT who does a drop by as I'm making dinner on the last day of the month. He does this two out of three months and the third month (the four quarterly months in the year when the numbers are reported), he does an actual visit. This now gives him permission to skip the drop bys. I'm glad, because one time I grabbed a pan quickly to get it somewhere safe so I could answer the door. I was in a hurry and forgot to use a hot pad. I practically slammed the door in my HTs face so I could ice my hand.

As far as my needs, I need to be left alone. Have any of you said that? Does that actually work? That is what I would prefer.

Otherwise, I can see this text exchange:

Minister: Give, how are you doing?
Give: Fine. I'm fine. We're all fine?
Minister: Is there anything you need?
Give: Yes, could you be a dear and bring me some darjeeling? I'm all out and then could you swing by the liquor store and pick up a split of champagne, I'm celebrating a raise? Thank you, so kindly.

[Jeffret]

I have a feeling we won't be able to say no to this.
...
As far as my needs, I need to be left alone. Have any of you said that? Does that actually work? That is what I would prefer.

Oh, I can say no to it. During my last couple of years of attendance, I ignored it, evaded it, or just said no, depending upon how they approached me about it. If they wanted to visit, I'd joke about it and say, "Great. We're doing fine. Why don't we just count this discussion and save both of us a lot of trouble?" If they assigned me to HT, I figured I didn't take assignments like that and they had to politely request, so I would just ignore it. If they asked me to participate, I declined. We could just never find a good time for them to visit.

After I stopped attending, I was surprised I didn't get more attempts at engagement, but I think people were 1) too busy with life, and 2) kind of afraid or cautious. When my wife and kids stopped attending less than a year later, I told them to put us on their Do Not Contact list. They've been surprisingly good about honoring that request. Our grown kids sometimes get attempted contacts from the singles ward, but my wife and I usually run interference for those.

[Give It Time]

I have a feeling we won't be able to say no to this.
...
As far as my needs, I need to be left alone. Have any of you said that? Does that actually work? That is what I would prefer.

Oh, I can say no to it. During my last couple of years of attendance, I ignored it, evaded it, or just said no, depending upon how they approached me about it. If they wanted to visit, I'd joke about it and say, "Great. We're doing fine. Why don't we just count this discussion and save both of us a lot of trouble?" If they assigned me to HT, I figured I didn't take assignments like that and they had to politely request, so I would just ignore it. If they asked me to participate, I declined. We could just never find a good time for them to visit.

After I stopped attending, I was surprised I didn't get more attempts at engagement, but I think people were 1) too busy with life, and 2) kind of afraid or cautious. When my wife and kids stopped attending less than a year later, I told them to put us on their Do Not Contact list. They've been surprisingly good about honoring that request. Our grown kids sometimes get attempted contacts from the singles ward, but my wife and I usually run interference for those.

I've done that "just count this as a visit". Really hurt the VTs feelings. I've also found that nevertheless they persist.

Will have to be firmer.