Priesthood Session Thread

[AdmiralHoldo]

I've been in situations where the HP wives were encouraged to socialize only with the other HP wives, which is bullcrap, so I'm in favor of this change.

Now it won't be so obvious that DH is gonna be the oldest guy in EQ. He used to be on the leadership track until he was laid off and his subsequent career stagnated and now he's basically an untouchable. (Also because of his heathen wife but I don't think anyone knows about that.)

[blazerb]

I have no problem with the change. It's fine. What drives me crazy is that every speaker acted like this is some amazing revelation, akin to Elijah declaring there would be no rain. It's a minor tinkering with the organization. Home teaching will still not get done for a variety of reasons, most having nothing to do with the work ethic of the men involved. I guess the biggest change will be that the EQP won't have to contact the HPGL to get more men to help when moving someone. Efficiency!

[Not Buying It]

After all, there’s nothing more prophetic or revelatory than changing it so the old men meet with the young men.

[sparky]

I have no problem with the change. It's fine. What drives me crazy is that every speaker acted like this is some amazing revelation, akin to Elijah declaring there would be no rain. It's a minor tinkering with the organization. Home teaching will still not get done for a variety of reasons, most having nothing to do with the work ethic of the men involved. I guess the biggest change will be that the EQP won't have to contact the HPGL to get more men to help when moving someone. Efficiency!

Yes! They were talking this up like crazy—it's inspired/revelatory, it's been under study for many months, it will [insert insipid generic blessing phrase]. I can't think of a single actual, practical issue this addresses other than requiring fewer priesthood leaders to run a ward. What does this have to do at all ?with "serving more effectively?" And why did they keep talking about how it will improve family history and temple attendance—it honestly just sounded like they listed off all the usual talking points and said this change will improve them, without explaining how. Honest question: Does anyone think this is being done for any reason other than dwindling priesthood* numbers? If it will be such an improvement, why wasn't this done years ago?

On another note, I really appreciated Eyring's harassment training (i.e. how to continue harassing people who have clearly stated they want you to leave them alone) and overstepping personal boundaries ("Elder, God told me to tell you not to quit school, and that's an order!")†

*Oops, I probably just offended Oaks' anal semantic sensibilities ("It is INAPPROPRIATE!!! to refer to the men of the ward as 'the priesthood!")

† I think the advice itself is fine, but anyone who tells you they are speaking as God to you should be roundly ignored.

[Reuben]

I can't think of a single actual, practical issue this addresses other than requiring fewer priesthood leaders to run a ward. What does this have to do at all ?with "serving more effectively?" And why did they keep talking about how it will improve family history and temple attendance—it honestly just sounded like they listed off all the usual talking points and said this change will improve them, without explaining how. Honest question: Does anyone think this is being done for any reason other than dwindling priesthood* numbers? If it will be such an improvement, why wasn't this done years ago?

Improving temple attendance? Nah, you can't demonstrate a mechanism.

Serving more effectively... I think so, actually. For one thing, just requiring fewer priesthood holders will do that. For the rest of my points, here's a self-quote from another forum where I sometimes hang out.

This is a very good change.

When I was HPGL, I noticed that almost all of the stellar home teachers were HPs. We hit 70% every month with no begging from me - the most I ever did was thank them. I never had to worry that someone wasn't being taken care of. The HPs showed me time and again that they were on top of things when something went wrong.

The elders, on the other hand... man.

There was way more to it than home teaching. The elders' quorum's best leaders and teachers were in YM. Half the time they couldn't find an instructor. I've never felt as sorry for an administrator as I felt for our EQP. My job was so easy in comparison.

I would gladly have shouldered some of his burden if I could have. Also, it would have been great to pair up some of our best home teachers with elders that might have been great at it but lacked motivation or positive experiences. The administrative overhead of coordinating to share manpower was too high, though. It would have been just another thing on his plate.

In the present, this change will allow the Primary in our ward to solve its staffing problem.

It's all good, for so many reasons.

For my snarky position on it, I'm going to take inspiration from something Curt Sunshine said on the GC thread. The women have been doing this right for over a century, and now the men are finally catching up.

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

My take on the priesthood blow up. There will be some HP's who felt they had retired from EQ type work that will be mad that they have to help people move. Also the guys who moved up to HP to be with their aging peers without having an associated calling. For those that are younger guys that got forced to HP due to bishopric calling, they will be happy to be back with their peer group in most cases.

It makes me wonder if someone at the COB actually read David Whitmer's "An address to all beleiver's in Christ" publication where he lambast's the church leaders for making High Priests where they never existed doctrinally before and changing the older D&C revelations to make it work.

I think due to the Snuffer movement and other criticism we are seeing RMN trying to be our pope francis and doing his best to make bland corporate policy and organizational changes into the Snufferite revelations those types of members are craving. Interesting times.

[asa]

Five finger. Love your name . I always thinks here is someone who knows their church history.

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

Five finger. Love your name . I always thinks here is someone who knows their church history.

Thanks, I feel bad for Walter Scott the minister, we stole so much of his intellectual/doctrinal property.

[sparky]

I can't think of a single actual, practical issue this addresses other than requiring fewer priesthood leaders to run a ward. What does this have to do at all ?with "serving more effectively?" And why did they keep talking about how it will improve family history and temple attendance—it honestly just sounded like they listed off all the usual talking points and said this change will improve them, without explaining how. Honest question: Does anyone think this is being done for any reason other than dwindling priesthood* numbers? If it will be such an improvement, why wasn't this done years ago?

Improving temple attendance? Nah, you can't demonstrate a mechanism.

Serving more effectively... I think so, actually. For one thing, just requiring fewer priesthood holders will do that. For the rest of my points, here's a self-quote from another forum where I sometimes hang out.

This is a very good change.

When I was HPGL, I noticed that almost all of the stellar home teachers were HPs. We hit 70% every month with no begging from me - the most I ever did was thank them. I never had to worry that someone wasn't being taken care of. The HPs showed me time and again that they were on top of things when something went wrong.

The elders, on the other hand... man.

There was way more to it than home teaching. The elders' quorum's best leaders and teachers were in YM. Half the time they couldn't find an instructor. I've never felt as sorry for an administrator as I felt for our EQP. My job was so easy in comparison.

I would gladly have shouldered some of his burden if I could have. Also, it would have been great to pair up some of our best home teachers with elders that might have been great at it but lacked motivation or positive experiences. The administrative overhead of coordinating to share manpower was too high, though. It would have been just another thing on his plate.

In the present, this change will allow the Primary in our ward to solve its staffing problem.

It's all good, for so many reasons.

For my snarky position on it, I'm going to take inspiration from something Curt Sunshine said on the GC thread. The women have been doing this right for over a century, and now the men are finally catching up.

Valid points, thanks for your perspective, Reuben. I still question why god waited for Nelson before giving this grand revelation.

[2bizE]

I attended at a local stake center with family.
After the announcement of the HP being combined with Elders, some guy behind me said he was hoping for 2 hour church instead.
My boys pointed out how Nelson looks like that guy on Star Wars. I said Grand Mal Tarkin and showed them a picture. No, not him they said Snokes.

Also, my super TBM FIL said he thought a lot of HP are going to struggle with this change. Many may even stop coming he said rather than be demoted back to EQ.

[Reuben]

Valid points, thanks for your perspective, Reuben. I still question why god waited for Nelson before giving this grand revelation.

Oh, absolutely. It's clear that if revelation is involved at all, it takes a back seat to tradition.

FWIW, I don't think this or any other organizational restructuring has anything to do with revelation. But it has to be put in those terms because the previous structure was ostensibly given by revelation, and man can't change the laws of God, etc., etc. The silliness becomes apparent when I imagine my employer claiming revelation to rearrange the org chart.

[Silver Girl]

wow, High Priests just got more elite!

No joke, that's what it seems.

I haven't viewed it yet - how is it more (artificially) elite now? I thought it sounded like it diluted it, and it's a move to integrate EQ into HP to increase retention? That's just based on what I heard of it.

[Mormorrisey]

wow, High Priests just got more elite!

No joke, that's what it seems.

I haven't viewed it yet - how is it more (artificially) elite now? I thought it sounded like it diluted it, and it's a move to integrate EQ into HP to increase retention? That's just based on what I heard of it.

On the surface, you're correct. It does integrate the two quorums, for teaching purposes and this new "ministering." However, there is still a HP quorum, and it's made up of those who have the special callings; bishoprics, stake presidencies, high councils and patriarchs. So these lucky souls will have a meeting once a year to glory in their righteousness and be trained and instructed by the SP. I'm being facetious, but you get the point. So while there won't be a classroom distinction in the various wards, there will be a "royal" HP quorum of the lucky group assigned to lead (or minister, depending on your point of view.)

So in my mind, this still creates some virtue signalling in those lucky enough to have these callings, at least to some extent, and the extent to which this creates division depends on the doofuses (doofii?) who run the show. The church giveth, and the church taketh away, as it always does.