Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
The presidency encouraged leaders to shy away from experiences that rely on emotion or that try to force a spiritual experience through drama.
“Sometimes young women—especially those who are just learning to respond to the Spirit—might think, ‘Everybody else is crying; why am I not crying? I must not be feeling the Spirit,’” Sister Oscarson said. “People can feel the Spirit working in their lives, and everybody reacts differently to it. Stick with the scriptures, the basic doctrines of Christ and of the gospel, and choose appropriate activities that invite the Spirit but which don’t try to manipulate emotions.”
I spent my entire time as a believing member of the church wondering what was wrong with me because I wasn’t crying, I didn’t have the same emotional experience, I had no “burning in my bosom.” I wondered if I was broken or if others were lying. I wondered if others were interpreting incorrectly or whether I had sinned. Most of the time as a youth and a child I thought others were better than me and that I was bad. As I grew older I grew more cynical.
Emotional manipulation is the name of the game in the church. Can any activities in the church exist without it? What is a testimony meeting, camp, object lesson, or trek without emotionally manipulating those who participate into feeling something that confirms their experience as true? I don’t think most people who use it realize that is exactly what they are doing.
I’m curious what you all think. Will this make any difference? Will this become standard counsel in other areas of the church? Is this an attempt to stem the bleeding of members who realize emotional manipulation for what it is and that emotional experiences are not verification of truth? Can adults who were convinced of the truth of the church through dramatic emotional means teach their own children/youth in any other way?
While serving in the Bishopric we were expected to "set things up so that the kids could have a spiritual experience."
This came mostly through the Stake when we would do stake youth activities or when we did the trek.
You should have seen the looks I got from leadership when I questioned whether it was really accurately understanding the workings of the Spirit to try to "set things up" for a "spiritual experience".
In my experience, the Lord chooses why, when and where He will influence His children, NOT MEN.
To try to force either the individual's or the Lord's hand in these matters is not only sacrilege and assuming power that one does not have, but it is also arrogant. God operates on His timetable, not on ours. He knows when a person is truly seeking and prepared and when His felt influence will have the longest lasting effect on someone's soul.
Old habits and ideas die very slowly in this church. Will it make a difference? Maybe, but I wouldn't hold my breath. As usual the church is playing catch up. They are perpetually behind the curve on this type of thing. They should get a clue that it is a sign that they aren't the true church they think they are.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."
"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."
The problem the Brethren have is they want members to think the emotions people feel related to Church things are “the Spirit”, but people feel the same emotions for all kinds of other things too. They want to use the emotion to convince members its “the Spirit” telling them the Church is true, but they can’t control the emotional feelings for other things, thus members think they feel “the Spirit” when listening to Julie Rowe, Denver Snuffer, and Hallmark Channel Christmas specials. It’s leaves members vulnerable to being led by other voices because those other voices can arouse the same emotions the Church has labeled “the Spirit”.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph
Not Buying It wrote: ↑Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:18 pm
They want to use the emotion to convince members its “the Spirit” telling them the Church is true, but they can’t control the emotional feelings for other things, thus members think they feel “the Spirit” when listening to Julie Rowe, Denver Snuffer, and Hallmark Channel Christmas specials.
My favorite example of this is the Budweiser Puppy & Pony Christmas Commercial. Gives me "the feelz" every time... (Sniffle)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus
Kudos for making the effort, but let’s face reality there is no spirit as the average youth understands it without emotion. The church will just get more boring.
“Five percent of the people think; ten percent of the people think they think; and the other eighty-five percent would rather die than think.”
― Thomas A. Edison
One easily reproducible way to initiate a demi-spiritual experience is to put too much wasabi on your sushi. In that instant where your focus of attention becomes disentangled from the world and narrowed to taking your next breath, the spiritual experience will have occurred. BTW, it is enhanced if you were using chopsticks and drinking Thai or Vietnamese hot or iced coffee.
Hope that helps, although it is not recommended for young women. It is felt that enjoyment can be incurred by much older message board posters.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha
I guess it is time to cancel Fast Sunday and Trek.
Stands next to Kolob, called by the Egyptians Oliblish, which is the next grand governing creation near to the celestial or the place where God resides; holding the key of power also, pertaining to other planets; as revealed from God to Abraham
I don't disagree with anybody here. I was surprised to read it; it was mentioned in leadership meeting in my ward. It does seem like an admission that manipulation is used. I don't think most people understand or consider how much emotional manipulation is used in everything church related.
