Mesoamerica discovery

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

This is starting to pop up on the facebook feeds. The north america model followers will need to step up their game:


https://news.nationalgeographic.com/201 ... a-pacunam/

[wtfluff]

This is starting to pop up on the facebook feeds. The north america model followers will need to step up their game:

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/201 ... a-pacunam/

Are these FaceNeck feeds using this as "Book of Mormon evidence?"

A bit funny if they are...

...The ancient Maya never used the wheel or beasts of burden ...

The results suggest that Central America supported an advanced civilization that was, at its peak some 1,200 years ago ...

(A couple of many snippets that don't add up with BoM.)

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

This is starting to pop up on the facebook feeds. The north america model followers will need to step up their game:

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/201 ... a-pacunam/

The results suggest that Central America supported an advanced civilization that was, at its peak some 1,200 years ago ...

The argument won't be that this is THE book of mormon people, it will merely give them ammunition to say "see there's hidden stuff that we didn't find before!!" and "ramparts and fortresses".

[Palerider]

This doesn't surprise me at all, I've long suspected that there was much more than meets the eye in Central America. Just wake me up when someone finds gold plates or temple wall inscriptions written in reformed Egyptian....whatever the heck that is....

[moksha]

This is excellent. You can almost spot which structures were the Temple, the ward houses, the stake president's house, and the Council of Fifty chambers. Not sure which one would house the prophet, although if it was seen from street level it would become obvious since it would be the one with a penthouse. Do you think the smaller dwellings were used for various wives?

[wtfluff]

This is starting to pop up on the facebook feeds. The north america model followers will need to step up their game:

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/201 ... a-pacunam/

The results suggest that Central America supported an advanced civilization that was, at its peak some 1,200 years ago ...

The argument won't be that this is THE book of mormon people, it will merely give them ammunition to say "see there's hidden stuff that we didn't find before!!" and "ramparts and fortresses".

Ah yes.

Maybe the North American model folks need to start shooting lasers at the Hill Cumorah and the surrounding area. I'm eagerly looking forward to them finding the Mormon Cave of Wonders! [/SARCASM]

[BriansThoughtMirror]

Wow, this is really cool! I can't believe what they can do now!

The argument won't be that this is THE book of mormon people, it will merely give them ammunition to say "see there's hidden stuff that we didn't find before!!" and "ramparts and fortresses".

To me, this is actually a fair argument. There COULD be more that we don't know, and it could totally change our understanding of the ancient past. It's happened before. It will probably happen again. I don't think we've found very good evidence for the BOM at this point, and I don't ever expect to, but an intelligent person could reason that we just haven't found the right sites yet. It's not like we know exactly everything that went on in ancient America during the specified time, and we're learning new things all the time. There's a lot of jungle out there, and it's obviously hiding things! But, like I said, I don't expect anyone to dig up Zarahemla any time soon. But I also won't call anyone stupid because they keep hoping and digging. In any case, I am no expert on ancient American history, so I'd feel like a hack trying to argue about it. I know enough to convince myself, and probably not anyone else!

[Not Buying It]

Wow, there were forts - the Book of Mormon must be true! Because no one besides Book of Mormon people ever had forts or warfare.

Let's talk about what they didn't find - tens of thousands of steel swords used in the final annihilation of an entire nation and all of its men, women, and children. Or horses. Or chariots. Or even wheels. Or...

...why bother? Believing members got a little boost for their faith, and that's all they want really, they don't care whether or not it is strong, convincing evidence for the Book of Mormon - they just care it could be construed as evidence. That's good enough for most of them.

[Hagoth]

Wow, there were forts - the Book of Mormon must be true! Because no one besides Book of Mormon people ever had forts or warfare.

My thoughts exactly. A real challenge would be to find an ancient civilization that didn't have conflict. The only one that comes to mind is the Book of Mormon's claim that there was peace for 200 years after Jesus' visit. So, what would be better evidence for the BoM would be a complete absence of weapon production, fortifications, bone trauma, and any other signs of combat in Mesoamerica from 33-233 AD. Two hundred solid years of swords-to-plowshares.

[Rob4Hope]

I'm stoked that they found metal, and iron and all that. TOTALLY COOL!...

Oh wait?...wrong article. Sorry.....

[RubinHighlander]

Did they happen to find a stash of Yamakas? Perhaps a minorah?

Guess I shouldn’t expect to see those things if there’s zero evidence for any Jewish bloodlines, no matter how big the Mayan city.

[EternityIsNow]

What will they find? Would be interesting if they find inscriptions describing or illustrating the Mayan rituals of animal and human sacrifice.... like are found in some other sites. The Mayan 'temple rites' are not what the Mormons are thinking... Pretty brutal, borrowed from the Toltecs (according to historians). I wish the TBMs knew the truth about Mayan temples... that might dampen some of the flights of fantasy about Mesoamerica and the BoM.

[wtfluff]

What will they find? Would be interesting if they find inscriptions describing or illustrating the Mayan rituals of animal and human sacrifice.... like are found in some other sites. The Mayan 'temple rites' are not what the Mormons are thinking... Pretty brutal, borrowed from the Toltecs (according to historians). I wish the TBMs knew the truth about Mayan temples... that might dampen some of the flights of fantasy about Mesoamerica and the BoM.

One thing I LOVE about already discovered Mesoamerican sites is the ball court. Obviously, it was quite important to that culture. Golly, I wonder why ball courts were never mentioned in the Book of Mormon? (And why did I never make that connection as a believer??? My, my, the emperor's new clothes are very nice! )

[moksha]

To me, this is actually a fair argument. There COULD be more that we don't know, and it could totally change our understanding of the ancient past. It's happened before. It will probably happen again.

Don't be surprised when the excavation uncovers a frieze depicting a steel chariot being pulled by a team of tapirs, with the words carved below, "Onward Nephite soldiers, marching as to war. With the Stripling Warriors marching on afore".

[Hagoth]

What will they find? Would be interesting if they find inscriptions describing or illustrating the Mayan rituals of animal and human sacrifice.... like are found in some other sites. The Mayan 'temple rites' are not what the Mormons are thinking... Pretty brutal, borrowed from the Toltecs (according to historians). I wish the TBMs knew the truth about Mayan temples... that might dampen some of the flights of fantasy about Mesoamerica and the BoM.

One thing I LOVE about already discovered Mesoamerican sites is the ball court. Obviously, it was quite important to that culture. Golly, I wonder why ball courts were never mentioned in the Book of Mormon? (And why did I never make that connection as a believer??? My, my, the emperor's new clothes are very nice! )

Hugh Nibley noticed this serious oversight and suggested that Ammon cut off all those arms while playing a ball game. One of the most heinous examples or reading between the lines.

[wtfluff]

What will they find? Would be interesting if they find inscriptions describing or illustrating the Mayan rituals of animal and human sacrifice.... like are found in some other sites. The Mayan 'temple rites' are not what the Mormons are thinking... Pretty brutal, borrowed from the Toltecs (according to historians). I wish the TBMs knew the truth about Mayan temples... that might dampen some of the flights of fantasy about Mesoamerica and the BoM.

One thing I LOVE about already discovered Mesoamerican sites is the ball court. Obviously, it was quite important to that culture. Golly, I wonder why ball courts were never mentioned in the Book of Mormon? (And why did I never make that connection as a believer??? My, my, the emperor's new clothes are very nice! )

Hugh Nibley noticed this serious oversight and suggested that Ammon cut off all those arms while playing a ball game. One of the most heinous examples or reading between the lines.

Oh goodness...

"Translation" means, well, whatever you need it to mean dependent on circumstances.

"Sheep herding" means playing whatever-it-is-they-played on a Mesoamerican ball court, and hacking dude's arms off.

Definitely gold-medal level mental gymnastics...

[BriansThoughtMirror]

What will they find? Would be interesting if they find inscriptions describing or illustrating the Mayan rituals of animal and human sacrifice.... like are found in some other sites. The Mayan 'temple rites' are not what the Mormons are thinking... Pretty brutal, borrowed from the Toltecs (according to historians). I wish the TBMs knew the truth about Mayan temples... that might dampen some of the flights of fantasy about Mesoamerica and the BoM.

My wife and I visited Teotihuacan and other Aztec ruins near Mexico city a while back, right after visiting the Mexico City Anthropology museum (INCREDIBLE!!!!) and learning about the practices of human sacrifice. We stood on top of the temple of the feathered serpent, where a lot of those sacrifices took place. It was seriously creepy and a bit disturbing to think about. Nothing very uplifting, but lots that was very interesting!

We also visited some Mayan ruins, and we saw some cool ball courts and rode bikes through an ancient city in the jungle! No Nephites, though. But, dang, it was a cool trip!

[oliver_denom]

Wow, there were forts - the Book of Mormon must be true! Because no one besides Book of Mormon people ever had forts or warfare.

My thoughts exactly. A real challenge would be to find an ancient civilization that didn't have conflict. The only one that comes to mind is the Book of Mormon's claim that there was peace for 200 years after Jesus' visit. So, what would be better evidence for the BoM would be a complete absence of weapon production, fortifications, bone trauma, and any other signs of combat in Mesoamerica from 33-233 AD. Two hundred solid years of swords-to-plowshares.

You know what would really seal the deal? Come up with a single scrap of evidence that either Judaism or Christianity was being practiced anywhere in North or South America from 600 BC to 420 AD. Forget about every other anachronism, show me the religion.

[Corsair]

My wife and I visited Teotihuacan and other Aztec ruins near Mexico city a while back, right after visiting the Mexico City Anthropology museum (INCREDIBLE!!!!) and learning about the practices of human sacrifice. We stood on top of the temple of the feathered serpent, where a lot of those sacrifices took place. It was seriously creepy and a bit disturbing to think about. Nothing very uplifting, but lots that was very interesting!

We also visited some Mayan ruins, and we saw some cool ball courts and rode bikes through an ancient city in the jungle! No Nephites, though. But, dang, it was a cool trip!

I visited Tikal in Guatemala. It was a fascinating trip and I would recommend it to anyone with an interest in archaeology. Claiming that there was some kind of ancient Mormon influence on the area is really not possible. Any hints of the LDS gospel will be only what you bring in yourself.

[BriansThoughtMirror]

Here's another articel about the recent Mayan discoveries with more info:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/spe ... 9945b2d9fe

Looks like there is a lot we don't know. Surprise!