Higher Historical Criticism and Mormon Doctrine

[Reuben]

I didn't know the the Zoroastrian virgin birth story. Thanks, that's fascinating. I definitely prefer it to the Mormon polygamous bride of Elohim version. Really, the story of a virgin birth is so common that I think it's probably more unusual to have a messiah/demigod/physical manifestation/enlightened teacher that was NOT born of a virgin.

I went looking for things that are stranger than "polygamist bride of Elohim" and boy did I ever find them.

Apparently, in Hittite mythology, the god Kumarbi bit off his father Anu's genitals during a successful coup, and thus became impregnated with five of his children. Because that's how reproduction works.

Probably derived from that is the story of how the Greek titan Cronus castrated his father Uranus and threw his testicles into the sea, and thus Aphrodite was born. Because that's how reproduction works.

This stuff is flippin' amazing.

[Hagoth]

I just remembered one from the Mayan Popul Vu. The decapitated head of one of the hero twins that was lodged in a tree spat into the palm of Blood Moon Woman's hand and made her pregnant. Stranger than fiction, so it must be true.

[alas]

Some of this would indicate that the idea of virgin birth was just a mistranslation, but I think that there is more to it. The Zoroastrian version of the Savior myth was that the virgin would bath in the Lake (some specific lake in their home country) and that God would rain down his sperm, which would impregnate the virgin, with her remaining virgin. They had an explanation for how exactly this pregnancy would happen. So, if the Hebrew got their version of the myth from the earlier Babalonian version of the myth, then it would not be a mistranslation.

So many pieces of this puzzle.

I think his point is that this verse doesn't really have anything to do with virgin birth or a standard messiah narrative, Zoroastrian or otherwise.

I didn't know the the Zoroastrian virgin birth story. Thanks, that's fascinating. I definitely prefer it to the Mormon polygamous bride of Elohim version. Really, the story of a virgin birth is so common that I think it's probably more unusual to have a messiah/demigod/physical manifestation/enlightened teacher that was NOT born of a virgin. Just to name a few:

Egyptian religions
*Mut-em-ua: The virgin Queen of Egypt, supposedly gave birth to Pharaoh Amenkept III through a god holding a cross to her mouth.
*Ra: The Egyptian sun god, was said to be born of a virgin.

Hinduism
*Krishna
*Karna

Assyrian and Babylonian religions
*Tammuz
*Zoroaster
*Tukulti-Ninurta II
*Ashurbanipal

Greco-Roman religions
*Alexander the Great [Plutarch, Life of Alexander,2-3]
*Antiope: Antiope was seduced by Zeus and bore him twin sons, Zethus and Amphion
*Attis: Attis was born to the virgin Nana who got pregnant after eating a pomegranate.
*Auge
*Dionysus:
*Melanippe
*Mithras: Mithras was born in a cave, to a rock.
*Romulus:Romulus was born to Rea Sivia, a mortal Vestal virgin. [Livy, History 1:3-4]

Chinese tradition
*Genghis Khan
*Lao-Tzu

Buddhism
*Gautama Buddha: Buddha was conceived to Maya without sexual activity.

You know the statue of the fertility goddess that has been found all over Europe and Asia? The religion represented by that statue is probably an ancestor of all the religions of all the area settled by the large language group.... And I forget the name of that language group. Indo-European??? So, since all the people is those areas have the same ancestral language, one would think they have the same ancestral religion, and this statue would indicate that.

So, if the religions of India, Europe, and much of Asia all have the same ancestral religion, one would expect similar beliefs would have survived among many of the existing religions of those areas.

Such common beliefs as there being a world wide flood, and a Savior/prophet/incarnation of God/son of God who would be born to a virgin. The pagan religions of Egypt, Rome, Greece, Babalon, and Isreal all had the same general gods and goddesses, just known by different names. For example, in Egypt, Babbalon, Rome, Greece, and Isreal the goddess of Wisdom was always represented as a snake, whether she was known as Isis, Wisdom, Sophia, or Athena. The story of Herculese has many similar elements as the story of Samson. Samson literally means "the son of the sun god" and Herc was also the son of the sun God.

Then these religions mixed and mingled as one nation would conquer another.