This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
Brent wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:43 am
Here's the jumping off point. I'm terribly nervous about the "What doctrine, if better understood..." bit but, in the end this is really a hopeful puff piece.
A program called "Come Follow Me" and it's all about covering talks given by the leaders of the church. Even the article itself cites JS and other church leaders and the only time the word "Christ" comes up is in reference to how lucky we are that the gospel has been restored (through the leaders, lest ye forget).
Power. The word power has come up a lot recently. I'm reminded of RMN's talk on PH power. We're obsessed with having more power, whatever the hell that means.
"What doctrine, if better understood, would help resolve the issue?" I see we're still stuck on this idea that members don't understand the doctrines enough or if people were just more obedient, life would be a bed of roses. First council I propose we rip the book of Job out of our scriptures, just like Song of Solomon, for all the use we get out of the book... but wait, we proof text Job to get some of our preexistence doctrines. Can't do that.
"Each council member has a vital role [so listen to them]... be sure that he can throw light upon the subject rather than spread darkness, and that his objection be founded in righteousness." In other words, more policing and conforming to the well worn paths. Because you know that any time someone disagrees or has a different POV it will be shot down with a, "But [leader] said this, why are you spreading darkness?"
Council members seek to be unified. Despite different perspectives, council members unite in seeking to “receive guidance from the Holy Ghost.”5 Joseph Smith once said during a council that “to receive revelation and the blessings of heaven it was necessary to have our minds on God and exercise faith and become of one heart and of one mind.”
Kind of the same point but that's one of my biggest issues with church. Lack of perspective leads to the exact same discussion over and over and over again. This goal of being one leads to like thought. One (valid) perspective to be held by all in the group. It leads to lessons where we know what scriptures will be shared, what quotes from GC will come up, and what anecdotal stories will be shared all before the lesson even starts.
Hard pass for me. While it's being billed as something different in practice it will turn out like every other meeting we hold at church. Mostly because the teacher will be untrained, possibly even unenthusiastic because the calling was foisted upon them, so we'll fall back on habits. "We're supposed to address quorum issues, and I think people have an issue with tithing. Why else would Elder Carbon Q. Copy have talked about it in his general conference address. That's why I want to read Elder Copy's talk, from the beginning, pausing after each paragraph read to force the reader into a situation where they have to restate what they just read in their own words.
Hard pass.
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin
Yeah, there's a lot about power in that article. Do members see themselves as being more powerless? Or do the leaders who commissioned the curriculum?
I love the false dichotomy:
To improve our councils, we avoid worldly concepts of leadership. In the Lord’s kingdom, the leader is “servant of all” (Mark 10:44). Similarly, the council leader, whether a presiding authority or a teacher, provides focus but is not the focal point. He or she avoids being the dominant voice or taking a position before hearing from the council.
I suppose my workplace is more divine than most, because that's exactly how we try to run meetings at every level. We even get training on this stuff.
On a positive note, ignoring the way the LDS church takes credit for these ideas and infuses them with spiritual significance, they're pretty good. The program might even give women more of a voice in how things are done.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.
Reuben wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:14 am
I suppose my workplace is more divine than most, because that's exactly how we try to run meetings at every level. We even get training on this stuff.
On a positive note, ignoring the way the LDS church takes credit for these ideas and infuses them with spiritual significance, they're pretty good. The program might even give women more of a voice in how things are done.
That training is more than important--it's KEY.
The church won't have any...or if they do it's led by another lay leader who doesn't know how...
Reuben wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:14 am
Yeah, there's a lot about power in that article. Do members see themselves as being more powerless? Or do the leaders who commissioned the curriculum?
I love the false dichotomy:
To improve our councils, we avoid worldly concepts of leadership. In the Lord’s kingdom, the leader is “servant of all” (Mark 10:44). Similarly, the council leader, whether a presiding authority or a teacher, provides focus but is not the focal point. He or she avoids being the dominant voice or taking a position before hearing from the council.
I suppose my workplace is more divine than most, because that's exactly how we try to run meetings at every level. We even get training on this stuff.
On a positive note, ignoring the way the LDS church takes credit for these ideas and infuses them with spiritual significance, they're pretty good. The program might even give women more of a voice in how things are done.
Earlier today, I read something on Facebook explaining the councils. My thought was that in most RS meetings, getting the women to comment is like pulling teeth. The women are well trained in sitting quietly. Sure, there are the usual 4 or 5 who make all the comments, but the majority of women will not comment. Heavens, I have not said a word in RS in the 30 years since I was RSP. So, this council is going to be the same 6 women saying the same thing over again each week.
But, yes, it would be a good way to give women a bit more of a voice, but most women are well trained in the idea that they should be seen but not heard---like good children.
I'm not sure about RS, but I know how this will play out in my ward's priesthood quorums. The elders will give it a shot but it will just be the presidency talking the first week. After that they'll pass something around and take turns reading. The High Priests will feature a handful of guys trying to out-holy each with miraculous stories about themselves from decades past that are remembered in suspiciously minute detail. The elders will degenerate to talking about sports for the last part of the meeting and the High Priests will succumb to derision of liberals and talk about how wicked the world is.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:30 pm
I'm not sure about RS, but I know how this will play out in my ward's priesthood quorums. The elders will give it a shot but it will just be the presidency talking the first week. After that they'll pass something around and take turns reading. The High Priests will feature a handful of guys trying to out-holy each with miraculous stories about themselves from decades past that are remembered in suspiciously minute detail. The elders will degenerate to talking about sports for the last part of the meeting and the High Priests will succumb to derision of liberals and talk about how wicked the world is.
Well, I'm glad I'm not going to be there!
"Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
And the truth isn't what you want to see" (Charles Hart, "The Music of the Night")
I see we're still stuck on this idea that members don't understand the doctrines enough or if people were just more obedient, life would be a bed of roses. First council I propose we rip the book of Job out of our scriptures, just like Song of Solomon, for all the use we get out of the book... but wait, we proof text Job to get some of our preexistence doctrines. Can't do that.
