Radio Free Mormon and TK smoothies

[GoodBoy]

I just laughed a lot! listening to Radio Free Mormon's description of Joseph Fielding Smith's doctrine that those who don't make it into the celestial kingdom will not be able to procreate in the here-after, and are therefore are neither male nor female (you know to prevent fornication in the hereafter). And therefore, they had to have TK-(Terestial Kingdom or Telestial Kingdom) smoothies. You know where their genetalia would otherwise be. Kind of like a barbie doll I guess. Anyway I had never heard of the term TK-smoothie before and it just cracked me up.

Also, the little comment on "maybe it wasn't a digit that the Brother of Jared saw"... probably sacrilegious, but I laughed out loud.

Radio Free Mormon has such great information and logic that is pretty hard to argue with. Hats off Consig!

[Rob4Hope]

The whole TK Smoothie is a hilarious topic. I became aware of it years ago in the Blogernackle where there was a MASSIVE discussion about it. It got me looking in Doctrines of Salvation, and some of the things in that set of books blew me away. It wasn't that the doctrines taught were strange (which they were by the way)--it was that there were records of how JFS addressed those he was teaching. One commentator referred to JFS as having "a very cavalier attitude". To put it lightly, that seemed to be the politically correct way of saying JFS approached some of his teachings in a most condescending way. That was one of the original cracks in my testimony shelf. Later I remember reading about JFS, BRM and others who would regularly meet and have doctrinal discussions about scriptural meaning. In one such meeting, BRM and some other guy had a disagreement. JFS came to the rescue, declaring that he knew the meaning of the scripture. The deference paid him in this recollection by BRM and others was: "This humble prophet of God" (or some such dribble).

So, in Doctrines of Salvation there are records of JFS being offensively condescending, and in this other account, this scriptural meeting account, he is this humble sweet man, this gentle prophet?

Nope. Cognitive dissonance. The records I came across in Doctrines of Salvation were unmistakable. In fact, I was shocked that those exchanges were even published in that volume!

After reading additional things about JFS, how he handled certain high-level excommunications and also his time as church historian, I'm inclined to believe he was a jerk. The reason why guys like BRM and others deferred to him was that they NEEDED to shore up his image (which he was doing a good job in damaging himself) and because they needed to "kiss the ass" of the leader as a way to further their own agendas.

[Corsair]

I have heard different reports about Joseph Fielding Smith. My conclusion of him was that he maintained a public persona in talks and writings of being a hard line conservative who wanted to protect the the image of his father, grandfather, and great uncle. It was his stewardship from a young age. But in personal and private encounters he was reported to be quite charitable and forgiving in stark contrast to his writing and speaking.

He clearly wanted to promote a saintly, untarnished image of Joseph Smith that fell in line with the Mormonism of the mid-twentieth century. I suspect that he was annoyed with David O. McKay being prophet for twenty years when he may have felt that he was denied this legacy. This is especially true since McKay was far more liberal in his views and his policies that finally finished the process of dragging Mormonism into the twentieth century.

I had a seminary teacher that brought out Smith's notorious "TK Smoothie" teachings. It was presented to us as this deep doctrine in hushed voices. I was a fairly obedient teenager and not a very good critical thinker at the time. This idea is hilarious and simply does not make sense when deconstructed. This is just one of many things I wish I could have pushed back against at the time.

[Rob4Hope]

I have heard different reports about Joseph Fielding Smith. My conclusion of him was that he maintained a public persona in talks and writings of being a hard line conservative who wanted to protect the the image of his father, grandfather, and great uncle. It was his stewardship from a young age. But in personal and private encounters he was reported to be quite charitable and forgiving in stark contrast to his writing and speaking.

He clearly wanted to promote a saintly, untarnished image of Joseph Smith that fell in line with the Mormonism of the mid-twentieth century. I suspect that he was annoyed with David O. McKay being prophet for twenty years when he may have felt that he was denied this legacy. This is especially true since McKay was far more liberal in his views and his policies that finally finished the process of dragging Mormonism into the twentieth century.

I had a seminary teacher that brought out Smith's notorious "TK Smoothie" teachings. It was presented to us as this deep doctrine in hushed voices. I was a fairly obedient teenager and not a very good critical thinker at the time. This idea is hilarious and simply does not make sense when deconstructed. This is just one of many things I wish I could have pushed back against at the time.

To be fair, it makes sense there were possibly two personas. But perception is reality. If JFS was a gentle man in private, that had little effect on me (actually my father since I was just very little at the time). It's his public persona and policies that mattered. JFS was the one who really pushed for contraception, declaring that anyone who used it to prevent children being born was committing "serious transgression". Guess what is also considered "serious transgression"?....well, murder, adultery, robbery, etc. His teachings were harsh and rather unyielding. Not a "gentle man" as claimed with how his policies trickled down.

I read Greg Prince's book on DOM. It seemed that DOM was taken advantage of quite a bit by some of the other Q14 members, particularly because of his age. This was when all the Wilkinson crap of student's spying on teachers, etc happened. I have to confess, it was an EYE OPENER to learn that the Q15 really didn't agree back then as much as I was led to believe. I don't know how much has changed since, but back then it seemed like a power struggle that everyone engaged in to push their own agenda.

This TK Smoothie thing is also like an agenda push, which had its own backlash.

[Jeffret]

I thought the Church's position was that "Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose." Seems like they loudly proclaimed that.

[Corsair]

I thought the Church's position was that "Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose." Seems like they loudly proclaimed that.

There are some amusing and distressing implications of this idea. For example, was Jesus still circumcised after he was resurrected? Not many people get their bris recorded in scripture, after all. The "doctrine" of the TK smoothie flies in the face of actual doctrine like the resurrection with details like:

But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.
-Luke 12:7

There is the apologetic explanation via "Divine Command Theory" in that this is God's game, therefore any of his rules are defined as righteous no matter how confusing or unfortunate they appear. But Divine Command Theory is completely capitalized by the modern manifestation of LDS prophets who speak for God. And thus, the TK Smoothie rule is simply the punitive, logical result of Joseph Fielding Smith's poorly considered opinion.

[moksha]

It is interesting to consider that a prophet's libido and hypomania could affect the ongoing beliefs of generations of his followers.

We exist that "we may have joy" on this level of existence and that required a good selection of wives to like make our sex totally celestial. Not only that, but we are Gods-in-Embryo who needed to make our earthly harem a heavenly reality via our performing required ceremonies. That way we could adequately populate our newly received planet upon passing all the Celestial tests and getting our full complement of keys. For the time being, we need to remain monogamous in order to keep those pesky Feds at bay.

Keep your eyes on the prize so you don't end up as a TK-Smoothy!

[moksha]

Keep your eyes on the prize so you don't end up as a TK-Smoothy!

Speaking of which, I understand the Sonic Drive-In of Sandy, Utah is having a special from now until December 10th on TK-Smoothies.

[Palerider]

Been a long time since I read this stuff from JFS.

I recall thinking at the time that those who failed to achieve Celestial status would probably be physically structured as they had been in mortality but the creative powers would be "dormant" or non-existent.

The remaining impotent "structures" would be a sad reminder of what might have been had people been just a little more valiant in mortality. See what drinking coffee gets you!?!?

I think it was Alas who mentioned having known JFS personally and found him to be a kind and gentle individual. But if one considers the anxiety, self-loathing and depression created in believing yet fallible humans by this false, pernicious doctrine, one has to wonder if upon death he didn't have a rude awakening?