ExMo logo - WARNING - Temple Info

[Korihor]

I saw this on reddit and thought it was pretty funny.

WARNING - SOME MAY FEEL THIS IS VERY BLASPHEMOUS - IT CONTAINS SIGNIFICANT TEMPLE SYMBOLS.
If you are sensitive to the temple or anything in the temple ceremony, Don't click the link and leave now.

Mods, please don't delete this. I'm not trying to be offensive.

https://www.stickermule.com/user/1070771948/stickers

Seriously considering a few of these. What do you think, it is OK to jest with something like this if you're no longer a believer, or is it simply bad taste and should be avoided?

When my shelf crashed, I lost the sense that anything is to sacred to be discussed in the open and everything is fair game to poke fun. Of course, we should be sensitive to others but when does being sensitive make it untouchable? We saw what happened with that french satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo.

Can we laugh at ourselves even if it bothers others?

Maybe this is related to the picture of the Utah Fan with a sacrament tray filled with whiskey shots at the tailgate party.

[document]

A UCC pastor once told me a story of an ecumenical group in Kentucky who annual held 7 meetings over Lent where each pastor or priest would lecture for two hours on one of the phrases of Christ on the cross. One year, they had an LDS bishop complain that they are never invited to the meetings, they allowed one of the meetings to the bishop to lecture on the phrase. The bishop had his wife prepare remarks on it. It was held in the local Catholic church as it was the only one large enough to hold the crowd of people to listen to these ecumenical talks. The woman went to the pulpit and looked at the crucifix on the wall. She quite literally pointed to the crucifix and said, "We don't worship a dead Christ" and proceeded to give an Easter sermon on the Risen Christ.

I bring up this story because she differentiated her religious beliefs through the disdain of someone else's religious symbol. Her motivations are irrelevant at this point, she has pissed off everyone else in the room. She was attempting to differentiate Mormonism from the rest of Christianity, and proceeded to shut every mind to Mormonism by doing so in an offensive matter to Christians.

This falls into the same realm as that ignorant person in the Catholic Church pointing at the Crucifix. However, the bumper sticker is actually a bit worse because they aren't working out of ignorance (I'm assuming this person is an ex-endowed Mormon) and understand that those symbols are highly sacred and they know the doctrines of the church. They are using the symbols of another religious group (Mormons) and saying something offensive (by displaying it) in order to differentiate themselves from those around them.

Just as the person above tried to differentiate herself from the rest of Christianity by pointing to the symbol offensively, the creator of the bumper sticker does the same. At the same time, most ex-Mormons I know (including myself) are not exactly fans of the church and would love to see their loved ones come out of the church rather than stay in. By using the symbols of the garments in such a way alienates them further and strengthens the Mormon narrative of the jerk ex-Mormon who is truly in the grips of Satan or just flat out evil and hate Mormons.

It does nothing to the outside world, who would never get the joke, and it generally just pisses off Mormons. I think that even in the ex-Mormon world or disaffected Mormon world, you would find that a good chunk would also find that offensive. Putting up warning labels around it in the thread and telling those easily offended not to click on it is a good indicator that you have stepped into the realm of offensive.

That said, were I with my ex-Mormon friends, I would probably chuckle at it as it is a clever design. On the back of a car? No, too much.

[Dravin]

Seriously considering a few of these. What do you think, it is OK to jest with something like this if you're no longer a believer, or is it simply bad taste and should be avoided?

I think it is okay to jest about something like that. That being said, there is a time and place for humor. I recall the gallows humor after 9/11, pictures of the towers with billows of smoke coming out of them and edited news tickers talking about how pot was legalized. I found them amusing, I chuckled, I wouldn't have grabbed such an image and shown it to someone who lost someone when the buildings came down though (not unless they started it first). I'll even laugh at the shock humor of dead baby jokes, I wouldn't tell one to a family that just lost an infant however.

Of course this changes the narrative from should it be avoid to where should it be avoided, and that's a perfectly messy question. People will bring up not feeding into Mormon prejudices, but it's a bit of a personal call over if you care if you're feeding into Mormon prejudices. The argument could be taken to argue that all exmormons should continue following Mormon modesty standards, political leanings, and the Word of Wisdom. If one cares if one is feeding into Mormon prejudices is a bit of a personal question and not at all straight forward. For some it'll most certainly be a consideration in their behavior, for others who feel more detached from the concerns of Mormonism they may not care a whit.

Can we laugh at ourselves even if it bothers others?

Yes, we can. We also need to realize though that just because we're laughing, even at ourselves, doesn't mean we're not offending people. If we care that we're offending them is something we each need to ponder over.

[wtfluff]

They are using the symbols of another religious group (Mormons) and saying something offensive (by displaying it) in order to differentiate themselves from those around them.

Since the mormons stole these "religious symbols" from the Freemasons, do the mormons really have a right to be offended?

The folks who invented the symbolism aren't afraid to display it...





(Yes, I'm being sarcastic Doc, but do you see my point?)

[document]

I do see your point.

I guess in my old age (kidding, I'm only 34), I just think, "Why on Earth would I instantly want to make an enemy of the person behind me or god forbid the police officer behind me is an active Mormon".

[Silver Girl]

A UCC pastor once told me a story of an ecumenical group in Kentucky who annual held 7 meetings over Lent where each pastor or priest would lecture for two hours on one of the phrases of Christ on the cross. One year, they had an LDS bishop complain that they are never invited to the meetings, they allowed one of the meetings to the bishop to lecture on the phrase. The bishop had his wife prepare remarks on it. It was held in the local Catholic church as it was the only one large enough to hold the crowd of people to listen to these ecumenical talks. The woman went to the pulpit and looked at the crucifix on the wall. She quite literally pointed to the crucifix and said, "We don't worship a dead Christ" and proceeded to give an Easter sermon on the Risen Christ.

I bring up this story because she differentiated her religious beliefs through the disdain of someone else's religious symbol. Her motivations are irrelevant at this point, she has pissed off everyone else in the room. She was attempting to differentiate Mormonism from the rest of Christianity, and proceeded to shut every mind to Mormonism by doing so in an offensive matter to Christians.

This cross and the crucifix are commonly misunderstood by LDS members (and others, I guess). I grew up in a mainstream Protestant church, and I actually married someone who was (is) Catholic, but we later divorced. Of the two, I know far more about the Protestant cross than I do the crucifix.

Protestants generally say the cross is empty because they want to focus on the risen Savior. This in no way diminishes the deep emotional feelings in many Protestants of the sacrifice Christ made. Easter is always celebrated, but Protestant churches also often have Maundy Thursday services (which many LDS members have never heard of). That service is beautiful and very sobering - it represents and often reenacts the Last Supper - it's just beautiful and so touching. Good Friday is often recognized as well - in a deeply moving way. Some churches combine the two (as is the case where I currently worship).The purpose is, for those who believe in the Sacrifice of Christ, to never forget what he gave to us. The LDS church, as you'll recall, had General Conference on Easter a few years ago...

The Catholic Church also takes very seriously the sacrifice Christ made - to the point of, in some cases, making some sort of physical representation of it to get a personal feeling for it (such as Semana Santa in Spain). This does not mean they worship a dead Christ (as everyone here probably understands).

Anyway - those are the reasons the crosses differ in whether they have Christ on them or not.

That woman was rude and ignorant. No wonder people can't stand members of the church in some areas.

[wtfluff]

I guess in my old age (kidding, I'm only 34), I just think, "Why on Earth would I instantly want to make an enemy of the person behind me or god forbid the police officer behind me is an active Mormon".

I honestly don't think many active members would even realize what that sticker actually represents.

On the other hand, if the sticker were riding a Tapir, EVERYONE would get it. (Another inside joke only internet-exmormons would get...)

[Korihor]

I guess in my old age (kidding, I'm only 34), I just think, "Why on Earth would I instantly want to make an enemy of the person behind me or god forbid the police officer behind me is an active Mormon".

I honestly don't think many active members would even realize what that sticker actually represents.

On the other hand, if the sticker were riding a Tapir, EVERYONE would get it. (Another inside joke only internet-exmormons would get...)

Document, you are correct in that the fact I surrounded my OP with warnings is a good indicator it is offensive. Putting on my believer-days hat, I would balk at this as extremely inappropriate. Now I get a laugh.

But would most active endowed mormons get the implication? I'd say 50/50. But I think more would understand this image than they would an tapir riding nephite image (ahem, Hagoth).

That being said, I think everything fair game. But one must use prudence and good judgement for context, audience, location and timing.

[trophywife26.2]

I don't think there's anything wrong with this post IMHO, especially because you gave a warning and linked rather than doing a direct photo. I don't find the image offensive, but I probably wouldn't use it. At this point I don't need something like this any more, and when I actually needed something like this, I would have been too scared to use it for fear that instead of a friend seeing me with this symbol and recognizing our mutual journeys a leader would see it and know what it means.

[glass shelf]

I wouldn't stick it on my car because

1) the only people who knew what it is in my life would be offended/hurt by it

2) I would rather define myself but what I do believe in than what I don't.

So were I not of the belief that my car should be as anonymous as possible and instead serve as a way of communicating my beliefs to everyone on the road, I'd be much more likely to stick a bumper sticker of a darwin fish or the FSM or "Kindness matters" on there than something that's a backhanded jab at Mormons.

Am I offended by it on this thread? No.

[Luther Heggs]

I wouldn't stick it on my car because

1) the only people who knew what it is in my life would be offended/hurt by it

2) I would rather define myself but what I do believe in than what I don't.

So were I not of the belief that my car should be as anonymous as possible and instead serve as a way of communicating my beliefs to everyone on the road, I'd be much more likely to stick a bumper sticker of a darwin fish or the FSM or "Kindness matters" on there than something that's a backhanded jab at Mormons.

Am I offended by it on this thread? No.

I agree with you and would go one step further. I'm personally not a fan of taking others symbols and using it to "stick it to them" The Darwin fish is actually an example of that - deliberately taking the Christian fish symbol and changing it up to show the christians up. I'm now an atheist, but I'm not a fan of taking anyone's symbol and changing it up to offend be it Christian, Muslim, Mormon, or whatever.

[glass shelf]

I did think about that about the Darwin fish, so it probably wasn't the best example. That's definitely a fair point. It's a much more universal symbol (and certainly not secretly sacred) like the temple symbols though.

Since I like my minivan to be only recognizable to me by its unique door dings, it's all a mental exercise on my part.