American Apocrypha

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Emower
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American Apocrypha

Post by Emower »

I have been reading American Apocrypha the last little while. It is a really good book, I would highly recommend it. I thought I would post a review of the essays that were published within the book as I go along.

Historical Criticisms of the Book of Mormon. Yeah, we are all generally familiar with most of the issues brought up in this essay. This was written by a guy named Edward Firmage. His story is a lot like everyone else’s. He was assigned to teach GD, he was excited and got super into it as an academic and a big Nibley fan. After a closer look, he was out. Firmage goes on to list several issues that are resolved if one assumes the BOM is a 19th century work.
  • The Egypt problem. The book of Mormon is written in “the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians.” The plates of brass, apparently, are in Egyptian as well. There are several problems related to this issue. One being that it assumes there even was a canon of scripture existed in the 6th century BC. The other is that how would Lehi’s family have gotten the scripture translated from Hebrew to Egyptian, and why?
    Firmage gives an interesting explanation to this problem by assuming Joseph wrote it. So, Anthon proclaimed the characters to be Egyptian. Now whether that is accurate nor not, Martin Harris said it was and Joseph found it very useful. Firmage points out that at both of the starting points for the translation of the BOM (Mosiah being the first after the 116 pages were lost, and 1 Ne. as the later translated but supposed start of the record), the BOM gives its language provenance. The Egyptian connection then might have been born by an off-the-cuff comment by Anthon.
  • The prophecies and order of translation. Early parts of the BOM translation (Mosiah through Alma 16) don’t mention anything about Jesus coming to America. The beginning of the record (i.e. the last thing to be “translated”) is chock full of Jesus prophecies. One would think that in Mosiah through Alma, people would reference the wonderful prophecies about Jesus. Firmage also brings up the interesting aspect of 1 and 2 Nephi being prophetic in nature rather than historical, as one would expect. He feels like this is best explained by the notion that by the time Joseph got around to writing 1 and 2 Ne. he had already written the end and could better reference that to the beginning. Firmage does address the small vs large plates of Nephi issue by bringing up the fact that when the BOM talks about handing plates down through generations it never mentions a separate set of more prophetic plates. Although, all my life I assumed that there were lots of different plates being passed around and that there was a lot of stuff that could be included in the word “plates.” Firmage views Words of Mormon as a clumsy attempt to knit the two together and I do agree with that. Whole institute classes periods are devoted to explaining the convoluted way the small plates fit in.

    The other example Firmage gives for weird stuff being better explained by a 19th century work is the fact that the restoration of a church that had lost it’s authority is never mentioned. Lots is mentioned about a great and abominable church, but nothing really about a whole new church restoration. The marvelous work and Josephs calling in the book of Mormon is generally related to his translating and gathering Israel. Now, gathering Israel could be taken to mean building a church, but if that were the case the BOM could have been a lot more specific, as it was about a lot of other stuff. Firmage suggests that the idea to found a church may have come about in the very last stages of the translation, as he was prophesying about himself. At that point thought, it would have been hard to put stuff about a church in.
    He also brings up the issue of Moroni where a lot of it reads like a church handbook,
    But what most of us will probably know is that much of Moroni reads like a laundry list of 19th century theological talking points. This was also Alexander Campbell’s issue. Firmage goes on to discuss some of these talking points like infant baptism etc.
The essay was really good and well worth the read. He seems to maintain a NOM’ish view that there are a lot of questions not adequately explained away, but that the most reasonable explanation to most questions is that it is a modern text.
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Re: American Apocrypha

Post by Korihor »

I prayed to know the BoM is true and I felt good about it, soooooo no matter what you say, it' still the best book ever!
Reading can severely damage your ignorance.
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Re: American Apocrypha

Post by Hagoth »

Thanks for the book report, Emower. Sounds like a must-read for me. I would also recommend An Imperfect Book by Early Wunderli. Among other things it takes a deep dive into the textual evolution of the BoM at different points in its translation and finds parallels with other aspects of what Joseph was doing at the time.
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Re: American Apocrypha

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Korihor wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:47 pm I prayed to know the BoM is true and I felt good about it, soooooo no matter what you say, it' still the best book ever!
Also when other people get good feelings about stuff contrary to what I get good feelings over they are mistaken and confusing their own thoughts and feelings with the spirit. The spirit is totes reliable and impossible to mistake though, so don't worry about the epistemological implications of the preceding sentence.
Hindsight is all well and good... until you trip.
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Re: American Apocrypha

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The next essay was about Automaticity, written by Scott C. Dunn.

Automaticity is basically being able to do stuff with the small details becoming automatic. The premise is that Joseph was able to translate by focusing on the storyline with the actual writing of it coming to him in a more unconscious or automatic way. This seemed a little wild to me until he started to list some examples of people who have done this before quite successfully. See my post on Patience Worth or google her for the most successful example of this concept. I did a little bit of googling the topic and Dunn lists multiple examples of people who exhibited the ability. It seems that there are plenty of people that are on a different spectrum of ability and quality of work. Some people have attributed their writings to channeling other forces, some have listed their works as original. Apparently Charlotte Bronte was said to have produced work this way. Dunn has a section where he discussed people who use objects as catalysts to receive their abilities. Dunn spends a good amount of time talking about the parallels he sees between the BOM and some of these examples of automatic writing. He goes into some detail about how the processes are similar between automatic writing and the translation of the BOM.
Examples include multiple authorship, use of archaic language, accounts of bygone historical figures, accurate descriptions of times and places apparently unfamiliar to the writer, narratives with well-developed characters and plot, accounts of various ministries of Jesus Christ, poetics, occasionally impressive literary quality, doctrinal, theological, and cosmological discussions, and even discourses by diety
I would have to read some of the works that Dunn cites to decide if all his thoughts are parallelomania or cherry picked or if they are really legitimately similar. But He does bring up the fact that there aren’t many really solid rebuttals of this theory.
Dunn also discusses how this theory explains quite well some of the troubles in the BOM text. The fact that there is KJV bible and Isaiah in the BOM but no record stating that he used a bible while translating, biblical language all throughout, chiasmus, etc. It folds in the 19th century ideas in the BOM readily. It does not however give much closure to the idea of what is scripture and what isn’t. If Smith produced this by any sort of unconscious effort or even with him believing that he was channeling something else, is it still scripture? Dunn hits on this question in his conclusion.

Over all this was a fascinating discussion and essay to read. I had never heard of the automatic writing phenomenon, and I was definitely not aware of the plethora of examples that have some seeming strong parallels. This fits in pretty well with the view that Joseph was a pious fraud. I don’t think he was. I think he recognized that he had this ability, started small to see where he could go with it and built on it as fast as he could.
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Re: American Apocrypha

Post by Hagoth »

Examples include... accurate descriptions of times and places apparently unfamiliar to the writer...
Which, of course, is where the BoM really blows it. Neither Joseph Smith nor Nephi or Mormon knew Jack squat about ancient America.
Emower wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:58 amI had never heard of the automatic writing phenomenon,
Sure you have. Ouija boards operate by the same principle and generate the same spectrum of possible explanations.
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Re: American Apocrypha

Post by Emower »

Hagoth wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:37 pm
Examples include... accurate descriptions of times and places apparently unfamiliar to the writer...
Which, of course, is where the BoM really blows it. Neither Joseph Smith nor Nephi or Mormon knew Jack squat about ancient America.
Emower wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:58 amI had never heard of the automatic writing phenomenon,
Sure you have. Ouija boards operate by the same principle and generate the same spectrum of possible explanations.

Never seen or used a ouija board. Wouldn't you notice that your hands are moving it? Or is that the whole point, that it is your muscles acting unconsciously? Dunn does list ouija boards as a tool that a lot of automatic clairvoyant people used.

Like a good Mormon, I steered clear of the dark art of ouija boards. Little did I know that something similar was how the conditions that ruled my life were generated.
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Re: American Apocrypha

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Image
Speaking of American Apocrypha, we can all remember this statue.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Re: American Apocrypha

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I skipped Thomas Murphy’s essay about Lamanite Genesis because I just read his stuff, Southerton’s stuff and FAIR’s stuff recently and wrote about my impressions.

The next essay was the validity of the witnesses testimony by Dan Vogel.

I have a hard time reading Dan’s stuff, it is super dry and hard to follow the connections he tries to make. Most of what he brought up is stuff that the majority of us already know. What I did really enjoy was the approach Vogel took to the material which focused not on the character of the witnesses, but on the nature of their accounts in the historical record and their unique value.
It seemed to me that his main point was that the testimonies, as they are written in the BOM, focus on the physical nature of the experience. The 8 witnesses especially were supposed to be a physical witness as they handled the plates and there is no mention of an angel. Available history now shows that the experiences were much more subjective, spiritual, and sometimes conflicting.

The three witnesses:
I didn’t know that the three saw all kinds of other crap in addition to the plates. They saw the Liahona, the sword of Laban, and the Urim and Thummim. Their stories about the angel talking varies in different accounts. For example, at one point Whitmer said he heard an angel in the field he was plowing command him to bear witness, and the next minute Joseph came around asking for him to come be a witness. Most of us will know that the three witnesses later said that they didn’t “actually” see the plates with their physical eyes, only their spiritual eyes. Harris also had to go off in the Forest separately to get his vision. The conversation around the witnesses generally revolves around Martin Harris saying he saw with his spiritual eyes, but Whitmer also would go on the say that it was less physical and more spiritual. Vogel opines that rather than the witness statements being a lie, they probably just took several experiences through their life and combined them into the witness statement. There is some discussion about visions vs hallucinations, maybe it was a waking dream? Vogel also has a section about hypnotism. I don’t know that I buy into the true hypnotism thing, but Vogel gives an account of Philo Dibble talking about how D&C 76 was received. Apparently Rigdon and Smith were in a kind of trance, and Joseph was seeing things and calling them out saying, “this is what I see, do you see the same?” Rigdon would reply “I see the same,” and vice versa. I don’t buy the typical view of hypnotism, but I have experienced myself the power of suggestion and its ability replace thought patterns and memories, even creating memories. Anyone who has seen the show Brain Games can see this ability. Combine that with the fact the these three guys were excitable religious personalities and you have a recipe for priming the pump.

The eight witnesses:
The three witnesses were foretold by scripture. The eight were not. There is a discussion about how the eight were probably an ad hoc decision based on the excitement around the three witnesses. I didn’t know that David Whitmers mother saw the angel and the plates out in the barn while she was milking one morning. She was lucky that angel didn’t have a flaming sword and look suspiciously like Joseph Smith…
Some additional information comes out about the witnesses after the Kirtland banking debacle where tons of people were losing faith. Martin Harris made a statement or affidavit stating that anyone who said that he saw the plates was a liar. He provided a scriptural reference (D&C17:5) stating the witnesses needed to have faith to see the plates. Other accounts like one given by John Whitmer made it seem like the experience was visionary rather than physical. Yet other accounts given by more faithful adherents run counter and affirm the physicality of seeing and handling the plates. Vogel seems to rely on the three witness experience informing and impeaching the eight witness experience. There is a discussion about how the experience could have gone down, the discussion revolves around a combination of seeing the plates in a vision and then seeing or hefting something covered that Joseph said were the plates. I feel like Vogel begins to stretch a little to impeach the eight witnesses, there is certainly less historical information he cites relating to the eight witnesses that is negative. He begins to look at context, what people have said previously that informs the context, and then tries to draw lines from the context to a possibility. I know that this may be how history is done, but I like harder facts I suppose. That’s why stuff like DNA, anachronisms, and actual discrepancies in accounts. There is less of that for the eight witnesses. He does bring up a Mr. Ford’s account which is found in Fawn Brodie’s book apparently. He related that some of the witnesses said that Joseph brought a box, opened it, and there was nothing in it. He berated the eight for being wicked and faithless, and exhorted them to pray for forgiveness and faith. After two hours they were finally able to see the plates. There is little historical account for this besides Mr. Ford’s account, but this seems similar to what happened to the three witnesses. If you recall, the three got together and prayed, and could not get the angel to come. Jospeh said it was due to wickedness, and Harris withdrew. At that point, they prayed again and hey, what do you know but they got the witness that time. If I were Whitmer or Cowdrey, I would say that I saw the angel and got the vision because I would want the sinful one to be Harris who just left and not me. Joseph totally raised the stakes for what it meant if you did not see the angel with that stunt. Then, he went and found Harris (who had been praying this whole time) and told him that the other guys got the vision. Then they prayed together, and lo and behold he got the vision. Sounds pretty similar to Mr. Ford’s account above. I think group psychology explains all of it.

I like the way Dan ends it by saying:
Indeed, by what criteria do we accept the Book of Mormon witnesses while at the same time rejecting non-Mormon testimony? In the final analysis, nothing distinguishes the visions of the Book of Mormon witnesses from those of their contemporaries.
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Re: American Apocrypha

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Emower wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:30 am The next essay was the validity of the witnesses testimony by Dan Vogel.
I'm still trying to figure out why anyone cares about "witnesses" or "testimony" of source material that was never used.

The Book of Mormon was produced with a magic rock. The magic rock is in the first presidency's vault. The magic rock is literally the most important religious artifact on earth if you believe in the "most correct book on earth". Why isn't LDS-Inc. parading the magic rock around as proof of the veracity of their most important book, and their truth claims? Why don't they use the magic rock to get some new revelation?
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Re: American Apocrypha

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wtfluff wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:30 pm
I'm still trying to figure out why anyone cares about "witnesses" or "testimony" of source material that was never used.
The plates are some of the only physical evidences that the church is true. I think we can all agree that if we had the plates like we have the kinderhook plates then this whole issue might be put to bed. We dont, but what we do have are the testimonies of the witnesses. For many, those are as good as having the plates themselves. That is where people come in caring about it. I think the physical evidence aspect of the plates is independent of their lack of use in the translation. That is another issue entirely.
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Re: American Apocrypha

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Emower wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:45 pm
wtfluff wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:30 pm
I'm still trying to figure out why anyone cares about "witnesses" or "testimony" of source material that was never used.
The plates are some of the only physical evidences that the church is true.
Don't you mean that existence of the plates would be physical evidence that the church is true?

(As there is no physical evidence that the plates ever existed.)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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Re: American Apocrypha

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wtfluff wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:56 pm
Emower wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:45 pm
wtfluff wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:30 pm
I'm still trying to figure out why anyone cares about "witnesses" or "testimony" of source material that was never used.
The plates are some of the only physical evidences that the church is true.
Don't you mean that existence of the plates would be physical evidence that the church is true?

(As there is no physical evidence that the plates ever existed.)
What I mean is, you asked the question why people care about the witnesses. They think that it is a given that the plates existed, based on the testimony of the witnesses. Thus, the plates would be/are physical evidence if we had them via a wierd relationship with the testimonies. Obviously thats not how I feel, just trying to answer the question of why people care.
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Re: American Apocrypha

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Emower wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:57 pm
wtfluff wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:56 pm
Emower wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:45 pm
The plates are some of the only physical evidences that the church is true.
Don't you mean that existence of the plates would be physical evidence that the church is true?

(As there is no physical evidence that the plates ever existed.)
What I mean is, you asked the question why people care about the witnesses. They think that it is a given that the plates existed, based on the testimony of the witnesses. Thus, the plates would be/are physical evidence if we had them via a wierd relationship with the testimonies. Obviously thats not how I feel, just trying to answer the question of why people care.
Oh, well if you're trying to answer the question as to why TBM's care about the witnesses, it's because they don't know how the Book of Mormon actually came to be.

If TBM's knew that the "plates" were never used to "translate" the BoM that we have today, they might be a little less inclined to pose: "But what about the witnesses???"
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Re: American Apocrypha

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wtfluff wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:50 pm
Emower wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:57 pm
wtfluff wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:56 pm

Don't you mean that existence of the plates would be physical evidence that the church is true?

(As there is no physical evidence that the plates ever existed.)
What I mean is, you asked the question why people care about the witnesses. They think that it is a given that the plates existed, based on the testimony of the witnesses. Thus, the plates would be/are physical evidence if we had them via a wierd relationship with the testimonies. Obviously thats not how I feel, just trying to answer the question of why people care.
Oh, well if you're trying to answer the question as to why TBM's care about the witnesses, it's because they don't know how the Book of Mormon actually came to be.

If TBM's knew that the "plates" were never used to "translate" the BoM that we have today, they might be a little less inclined to pose: "But what about the witnesses???"
I thought you were asking the question as to why TBM's care about the witnesses when you said you were trying to figure out why anyone cares. I was trying to answer your question. Perhaps it wasn't really a question?
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Re: American Apocrypha

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Emower wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:59 pm
wtfluff wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:50 pm
Emower wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:57 pm

What I mean is, you asked the question why people care about the witnesses. They think that it is a given that the plates existed, based on the testimony of the witnesses. Thus, the plates would be/are physical evidence if we had them via a wierd relationship with the testimonies. Obviously thats not how I feel, just trying to answer the question of why people care.
Oh, well if you're trying to answer the question as to why TBM's care about the witnesses, it's because they don't know how the Book of Mormon actually came to be.

If TBM's knew that the "plates" were never used to "translate" the BoM that we have today, they might be a little less inclined to pose: "But what about the witnesses???"
I thought you were asking the question as to why TBM's care about the witnesses when you said you were trying to figure out why anyone cares. I was trying to answer your question. Perhaps it wasn't really a question?
It was a rhetorical question (as far as NOM is concerned...)


Edit: But... Any time anyone tries to use the "witnesses" to try and defend anything about the "golden plates" they need to be informed that the "golden plates" were never used for their supposed intended purpose.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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Re: American Apocrypha

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So the next essay was on B.H. Roberts.

Roberts is a figure that progressive Mormons to anti-Mormons love to hold up as a shining example of a real truth seeker. Apologetic Mormons like to say that he kept his faith and wrote what he wrote as an intellectual exercise as he played devil’s advocate. And frankly, they are right. This chapter taught me that B.H. Roberts was preaching that the book of Mormon was true (even historically in some instances) while at the same time he was communicating his doubt about the historicity of the BOM to the First Presidency and the rest of the GA’s, and writing about the challenges the BOM faces. This is not something I knew about him. I thought that he had communicated his faithful stuff early in his career, and then later began to doubt and write about his doubts. In fact, none of his critical works were ever public in his lifetime and he continued to put on a faithful public face to the end. He had great reverence and faith for the BOM, and he viewed it as a world class literary achievement. His preparation of critical materials though spanned a lot of his life while he was in top leadership positions. This tells me that he probably felt caught between doubt and faith. Classic NOM.
Plenty of major works about church history and scholarship conveniently fail to mention Robert’s critical material, even though they were available from as early as 1940. The mid 80’s were when his material really started to circulate. I thought it was interesting that missionaries serving while he was president recall that he instructed them to try not to use the BOM much.

It was an interesting summary and history on the works that Roberts came up with. His life really illustrates what it is to be Mormon. He had evidence that the BOM was not what it professes to be, no answers from Prophets Seers and Revelators who had asked him to answer the questions, and full confidence in his intellectual abilities, and he was still unable to pivot his public life to reflect his changing beliefs. Too much was at stake for him. The sacrifice for faith in this religious tradition is intellectual freedom. B.H. Roberts exemplifies this.
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Re: American Apocrypha

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The next one was an essay on Isaiah in the Book of Mormon. This is an issue that I became aware of only recently. I was excited to read it. It is 78 pages long. A lot of those pages are full of complicated word comparisons and statistical comparisons. It was just too involved and too dry for me to get through. If someone is interested in a full dive into the KJV and the BOM as it relates to Isaiah this is the one for you. It talks about KJV language, italics, translation errors, disparities with Hebrew language, variants and proofs of antiquity. I was hoping it would talk a little more about Duetero-Isaiah but there are better places to get that information.
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Re: American Apocrypha

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The next one was about Joseph’s infatuation with Seers and how the development of seers in the book of Mormon seemed to parallel his development as a seer. I wasn’t super impressed with this essay. It basically comes down to using the timeline of the translation to say “look, it seems that the ideas making up the book of Mormon are parallel to Smith’s opinion of himself!” Not that I’m going to argue with that, but I can get that kind of information other places.
One interesting point that Staker brings up that I had not realized before was the abrupt intrusion of a first-person narration into the 3rd person narration that had been happening since Mosiah. This happens without explanation at Helaman 2:13-14. Moroni sticks his nose in with increasing frequency after that. He doesn’t identify himself until 3rd Nephi. Staker thinks that this is the point at which Smith figures out what do about the missing 116 pages. I tend to think that this was worked out when Oliver arrived and the translation progress really takes off, but if that were the case it seems that Mormon would have been sticking his editorial nose in a little earlier in the story.
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Re: American Apocrypha

Post by Hagoth »

Thanks for the reports, Emower. I find this very useful. Maybe we need a book report forum.

Yes, it seems like Mormon was the Velcro at the beginning of the "large plates" that Joseph used to attach the later "small plates" story, and then he became a convenient summarizing tool.
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