Prophets to Guide Us

[consiglieri]

A message from President Monson is featured on the front page of lds.org.

https://www.lds.org/liahona/2017/09/pro ... _&lang=eng

He considers the lives of various church presidents and synopsizes the main thing he learned from each.

Strangely, he doesn't mention a single revelation, even when he is talking about President Kimball.

1. From President Grant, he learns persistence.

2. From George Albert Smith he learns to stay on the Lord's side.

3. From David O. McKay he learns consideration for others.

4. From Joseph Fielding Smith he learned to study the scriptures.

5. From Harold B. Lee to stay in tune with the Holy Ghost.

6. From President Kimball he learned dedication.

7. From President Benson (!) he learned love. (Sort of like consideration for others from President McKay, but it's a long list and there are only so many principles to use.)

8. From President Hunter he learned courtesy. (Even closer to President McKay's consideration for others.)

9. President Hinckley taught us to do our best. (Sort of like President Grant's persistence.)

After naming all the prophets in his lifetime, President Monson (or whoever is writing this for him) goes on to state the usual trope about how this church gets revelation all the time; in fact, it is the "lifeblood" of the church.

Continuous revelation is the very lifeblood of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

It is a strange conclusion to a message that mentions nine prophets (ten if we include the author), lists the main things learned from them, and doesn't mention even a hint of revelation anywhere.

I think this article does a good job of illustrating the strange state of Mormonism--being a church that trumpets continuing revelation through its prophets, but doesn't have any specifics to mention.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[Rob4Hope]

Don't they claim they get revelation on where to send missionaries and all that?

So the revelation is not doctrinal,...its administrative?

Sounds like a cop-out,...but that is what I hear them say.

[MoPag]

This article is a weird combination of sad and funny

President Joseph Fielding Smith (1876–1972), one of the Church’s most prolific writers, had as a guiding principle in his life gospel scholarship. He read the scriptures unceasingly and was as familiar with the teachings and doctrines found within their pages as anyone I have ever known.

"..and was familiar with the teachings and doctrines found within their pages..." WHAT? REALLY? The head of a major religion was familiar with the doctrines and teachings found within their scriptures? WOW! How is this some great revelation? Wasn't that kind of his job? And the current head of that same major religion is trying to pass this off as some kind of divine communication from God? What the actual f@#%?

[MoPag]

OMG this one tho

I believe a guiding principle in the life of President Spencer W. Kimball (1895–1985) would be dedication. He was completely, unequivocally dedicated to the Lord. He was also dedicated to living the gospel.

I would f#$%ing hope so!
I would hope the leader of leader of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would be dedicated to Jesus AND living the gospel. OMG!

Although...I would argue that he was dedicated to his own twisted version of Jesus, and not the Jesus you might read about in the NT.

[Red Ryder]

Ahh yes, what fine fabrics they profess to wear, whilst the breeze from no clothes waifs in the air.

Somebody please tell them to put some clothes on!

[Red Ryder]

OMG this one tho

I believe a guiding principle in the life of President Spencer W. Kimball (1895–1985) would be dedication. He was completely, unequivocally dedicated to the Lord. He was also dedicated to living the gospel.

I would f#$%ing hope so!
I would hope the leader of leader of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would be dedicated to Jesus AND living the gospel. OMG!

He was probably living in the closet. So clarification just might be needed!

[Emower]

Specifics have never done this church any good. I would argue that vagueness and uncertainty is the lifeblood of this church.

[Just This Guy]

OMG this one tho

I believe a guiding principle in the life of President Spencer W. Kimball (1895–1985) would be dedication. He was completely, unequivocally dedicated to the Lord. He was also dedicated to living the gospel.

I would f#$%ing hope so!
I would hope the leader of leader of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would be dedicated to Jesus AND living the gospel. OMG!

He was probably living in the closet. So clarification just might be needed!

What happens in the Holy of Holies is supposed to stay in the Holy of Holies.

[asa]

It is unfortunate I suppose but the last President of the Church to openly claimed to have received a revelation wherein Christ appeared and spoke to him was Joseph Smith in 1841 ( D and C 124). Since then nothing. There have been only 5 apostles since then who have openly claimed to have seen Christ. Some would say than the reality of the doctrine of continuous revelation is long dead in the LDS Church. Even the much publicized " revelation " on the priesthood to all worthy male believers wasn't a revelation according to LeGrand Richards .Hence the attractiveness of charismatics like Denver Snuffer who openly claim to be possess such spiritual gifts and in fact produce revelations and engage in acts of seership and prophesy. For some of those who thirst after a connection with the divine his message is very attractive.

[Hagoth]

There have been only 5 apostles since then who have openly claimed to have seen Christ.

I met more old ladies on my mission who made the same claim, I would hope for better odds with people who actually claim to be prophets, sees and revelators, and mouthpieces of God for the whole world

Asa, what is the nature of Snuffer's revelations? Does he claim in-the-flesh First Vision style visitations?

[moksha]

Don't they claim they get revelation on where to send missionaries and all that?

Like when they send someone with four years of high school Spanish to a Russian speaking mission because it shows they have the capability to learn a language.

[consiglieri]

Like when they send someone with four years of high school Spanish to a Russian speaking mission because it shows they have the capability to learn a language.

Or somebody with four years of German to Japan.

That would be me.

My best, friend, who was the only other student in the high school to have completed 4-years of German, got sent to Austria.

[asa]

Or someone with 4 years of Latin and a real interest in roman history who asked to go to the newly opened Rome mission sent first to Hong Kong then when that mission was temporarily closed after 9 months to Japan.

[asa]

There have been only 5 apostles since then who have openly claimed to have seen Christ.

I met more old ladies on my mission who made the same claim, I would hope for better odds with people who actually claim to be prophets, sees and revelators, and mouthpieces of God for the whole world

Asa, what is the nature of Snuffer's revelations? Does he claim in-the-flesh First Vision style visitations?

Yes on multiple occasions with the Savior and others. Just as real prophets ,seers and revelators do. You can look at his inspired reworking of the gospel of John and his more recent revelation on establishing a new covenant all on his website. He is the most prolific writer on church doctrine ,church history and related matters certainly since at least B H Roberts and probably since Joseph . 16 or more books plus a blog comprising millions of words composed in this decade alone. He pays for everything he does himself and any proceeds from publications are donated ironically enough to support LDS missionaries. In essence he offers a vision of Mormonism that simply builds on that of Joseph without the errors and dead ends of the last 170 odd years.The model he recommends is non hierarchical , small groups or fellowships meeting in peoples homes with any financial contributions going solely to the poor as determined by the fellowship itself. The tenets are focused on developing a relationship with Christ with both the teachings of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon being useful tools in this endeavor.There are multiple such groups where you are . Strangers are always welcome. As an anthropologist you should go to simply observe this newest iteration of Mormonism.

[Palerider]

Some observations:

Here we have the set up; "These are great men who never wavered, never faltered, and never failed."

Mr. Monson might as well tell all the members, "These guys were perfect, so what's the matter with all of you?" and not only that but here's my resume'. This guy was my Bishop, I was called to be an Apostle under this guy, I served under this guy, and on and on. Enough with the self preening and humble bragging.

No wonder Mormons have anxiety from all of our inferiority complexes.

But the real fact is that these "prophets" weren't perfect, they did have failings. It's just that nobody is going to mention them cause that would be evil speaking of the Lord's anointed and we don't do that whether it's true or not (according to Oaks).

Heber J. Grant stated emphatically in a 1st Pres. letter to the church that the priesthood ban was a revelation given because of poor performance by some spirits in the pre-existence. He has since been thrown under the bus.

As much as I empathize with the debilitating mental illness suffered by George A. Smith, if he had been working in a high stress job in the outside world, no one would have allowed him to go to bed for three or four days in a row when the going got tough, as he frequently did working for the church. I wonder if some of his emotional problems were actually caused by the church?

I think David O. McKay actually knew in his heart that the priesthood ban was wrong, but in the end he did nothing about it.

So far as Thomas Monson's list of things he learned from his prophets I can only say that anyone can find these principles quite easily in your local Bible or the teachings of other religious leaders. There is not one principle mentioned that is unique to the LDS church. Furthermore, good personal/human examples of these principles can be found in abundance in world and American history. But for those who are locked in to the little sister to Scientology......I guess you have no where else to go.

[Corsair]

1. From President Grant, he learns persistence.

<snip>

9. President Hinckley taught us to do our best. (Sort of like President Grant's persistence.)

I could fill in the names of popes, reformation leaders, early Christian theolgians, and a number of atheists who could fill in all these items many times over. Can any of these "LDS prophets" be an example of any unique LDS doctrines? For example:

1. From Joseph Smith he learns that this is the only true and living church on the face of the whole earth and all other creeds are an abomination.
2. From Brigham Young he learns about the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage.
3. From John Taylor he learns about standing for what he knows is right even if the government opposes it.
4. From Wilford Woodruff he learns about family history.
5. From Lorenzo Snow he learns about paying tithing on gross earnings.
6. From Heber J. Grant he learns about how the prophet will never lead the LDS church astray and that the use coffee and tea make you ineligible to enter the holy temple.
7. From Spencer Kimball he learns about receiving revelation to make important changes in the LDS church.
8. From Gordon Hinckely he learns about opposing the abomination of same sex marriage.

Each of these are "true" and nominally would be supported by an orthodox believer. Notice how culty these sound when spelled out this way.

[1smartdodog]

I think I learned most of that stuff in kindergarten.