Ran across this informative video by Utah reporter Lynn Packer. Mr. Packer over the years has broken many big Utah stories, such as the one about Paul H. Dunn and the Olympic bribery scandal. Anyway, if you are interested in this subject of consumer fraud in order to help protect elderly and vulnerable relatives, friends, and ward members then here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhge8DFLUWA
Consumer fraud with a Utah origin
Consumer fraud with a Utah origin
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha
-- Moksha
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Give It Time
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- Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:52 pm
Re: Consumer fraud with a Utah origin
I recognize a couple of those schemes as something my father bought into when I was very young or before I was born. When I was in my late-teens/early adult years, my father told me he had a policy of not doing business with Mormons. He watched and was aware of scams, told us what to look out for and stay away from them. I saw a few people approach him and I witnessed his telling those people of his policy. Just interesting hindsight.
There was a period between the time I told my ex I wanted a divorce and when he eventually left. During that time, we were watching Catch Me If You Can. On a commercial break, my now-ex turned to me and said that Abagnale got away with quite a bit and enjoyed a very high lifestyle, but got a very light sentence...it almost seems worth it. I thought to myself that I was grateful for the reassurance I made the right decision. My ex drained our accounts of six figures worth it funds, paid hefty tithing and went to Florida and participated in a 419 scam. Also, my ex did do business with some members and did shaft them. I don't know if the intent was to defraud. He never shared his plans with me, but he did believe in doing business with family members and ward members. More interesting hindsight.
I was recently talking to my bishop. He was encouraging me to get a temple recommend. He was trying to reassure me that it wasn't that hard. The only requirements for which he drew a hard line were tithing, supporting the FP and WofW. Side note: I drink tea and don't intend to stop. I walked away from that meeting and began thinking. Wait a minute...he knows my grievance with the church is it's enabling abusers, yet that requirement is one for which he draws a soft line. Then I followed that thought to honest business dealings was another requirement for which he draws a soft line. I was shocked. It was eye opening.
I posted a thread asking about the strictness of the interpretation of the questions. It turns out it's left up to individual bishops. However this pattern is so common, I wonder if there isn't some unwritten order of things guidance somewhere. I told my previous Bishop of my ex's fraud and that Bishop just shrugged. It makes more sense in the light of this whole issue.
I also learned about psychopathy/sociopathy and how they were 4% of the population back when I was divorcing. I would look around me at church, estimate the number of people there. There are about 125 families in my ward. A low estimate would be four people in a family. That's five hundred people and, statistically speaking, that's 20 psychopaths/sociopaths in my ward. Adding the new light and knowledge from the video: if there are 120 Melkezedek priesthood holders in a quorum, thats about 5 psychopaths/sociopaths, right there. I agree with the reporter that the statistics hold true pretty much anywhere you go. I agree that there should be screening for anti-social personality disorders before placing someone in a leadership position. I think the suggestion of more women in leadership positions is interesting. I also think changing the soft and hard temple recommend requirements would be good to add to that list.
Moksha, really just some processing. One fraud case Mr. Packer left out is the infamous, Frank Abagnale, Jr. taught at our very own BYU. He listed fraudulent credentials on his resume.
There was a period between the time I told my ex I wanted a divorce and when he eventually left. During that time, we were watching Catch Me If You Can. On a commercial break, my now-ex turned to me and said that Abagnale got away with quite a bit and enjoyed a very high lifestyle, but got a very light sentence...it almost seems worth it. I thought to myself that I was grateful for the reassurance I made the right decision. My ex drained our accounts of six figures worth it funds, paid hefty tithing and went to Florida and participated in a 419 scam. Also, my ex did do business with some members and did shaft them. I don't know if the intent was to defraud. He never shared his plans with me, but he did believe in doing business with family members and ward members. More interesting hindsight.
I was recently talking to my bishop. He was encouraging me to get a temple recommend. He was trying to reassure me that it wasn't that hard. The only requirements for which he drew a hard line were tithing, supporting the FP and WofW. Side note: I drink tea and don't intend to stop. I walked away from that meeting and began thinking. Wait a minute...he knows my grievance with the church is it's enabling abusers, yet that requirement is one for which he draws a soft line. Then I followed that thought to honest business dealings was another requirement for which he draws a soft line. I was shocked. It was eye opening.
I posted a thread asking about the strictness of the interpretation of the questions. It turns out it's left up to individual bishops. However this pattern is so common, I wonder if there isn't some unwritten order of things guidance somewhere. I told my previous Bishop of my ex's fraud and that Bishop just shrugged. It makes more sense in the light of this whole issue.
I also learned about psychopathy/sociopathy and how they were 4% of the population back when I was divorcing. I would look around me at church, estimate the number of people there. There are about 125 families in my ward. A low estimate would be four people in a family. That's five hundred people and, statistically speaking, that's 20 psychopaths/sociopaths in my ward. Adding the new light and knowledge from the video: if there are 120 Melkezedek priesthood holders in a quorum, thats about 5 psychopaths/sociopaths, right there. I agree with the reporter that the statistics hold true pretty much anywhere you go. I agree that there should be screening for anti-social personality disorders before placing someone in a leadership position. I think the suggestion of more women in leadership positions is interesting. I also think changing the soft and hard temple recommend requirements would be good to add to that list.
Moksha, really just some processing. One fraud case Mr. Packer left out is the infamous, Frank Abagnale, Jr. taught at our very own BYU. He listed fraudulent credentials on his resume.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren
Re: Consumer fraud with a Utah origin
Give it time, I was just reading about the exploits of Mr. Abagnale in the Wikipedia. I missed the movie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Abagnale
Lynn Packer's video would be an excellent teaching tool on how to avoid being a victim of affinity fraud when the Priesthood/Relief Society have their 5th Sunday meetings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Abagnale
Lynn Packer's video would be an excellent teaching tool on how to avoid being a victim of affinity fraud when the Priesthood/Relief Society have their 5th Sunday meetings.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha
-- Moksha
-
Give It Time
- Posts: 1244
- Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:52 pm
Re: Consumer fraud with a Utah origin
It would and actually that would be a good subject, or perhaps for mid-week Relief Society.moksha wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:29 am Give it time, I was just reading about the exploits of Mr. Abagnale in the Wikipedia. I missed the movie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Abagnale
Lynn Packer's video would be an excellent teaching tool on how to avoid being a victim of affinity fraud when the Priesthood/Relief Society have their 5th Sunday meetings.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren