Part 2 of Apostolic Coup d-etat is Up!

[consiglieri]

http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/ ... etat-pt-2/

I may have to do a part 3 to round out this discussion.

I wouldn't want to bore people, tho.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[moksha]

I like your idea of continuing separate divisions of the Church. I think we currently have religious, business, political, and legal divisions. These four wings could make for a powerful symbol.

However, I am still uncertain where a Church patriarch would fit in. Since the Quorum has voted themselves the titles of Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, would the Church Patriarch take on the title of Soothsayer and would his badge of office be a crystal ball?

[consiglieri]

I know (think) you are kidding about this, Moksha, but the patriarch was the only person other than the 15 apostles who was presented as, and sustained as, a prophet, seer and revelator.

Up to and including his last appearance at General Conference in October of 1979.

Of course, by that time, the Q15 had relegated him to beneath them in the order of sustainings.

But only just beneath them.

[LostMormon]

Can I just say how much I enjoy your Radio Free Mormon episodes, After discovering Mormon Discussion Podcast, those are the episodes I look for first, so many good ones.

Nice work! I hope you keep them coming.

[oliblish]

Here is the 1954 Q15 and the Patriarch:

[moksha]

Interesting photograph. I noticed Eldred Smith and Richard Evans both had mustaches. Was that the last facial hair on the Brethren in the Church before it became verboten under the fog of utter conservatism?

[moksha]

Back from the sidetrack.

Why would we want to maintain a hereditary Church position for the direct heirs of Hyrum Smith?

From the Wikipedia:

Eldred Smith was selected as the next Presiding Patriarch in 1947, marking the return of the office to the line of eldest sons descending from Hyrum Smith. By then he had married, started a family, and worked at several professions including cleaning and painting the ceiling of the Salt Lake Tabernacle. Smith later said of his first days as patriarch: "There is no way to prepare for it, no instructions, no counsel. When I was first ordained, I went into my office, closed the door and didn’t come out for two weeks. Then a young man came to the door asking for a blessing and so I gave it to him." During his tenure as Presiding Patriarch, Smith's primary duty was to travel to areas of the world where there were no patriarchs in order to bestow patriarchal blessings upon worthy Latter-day Saints. For example, he gave 139 blessings in 16 days in Australia in 1966.

He regularly spoke in the church's general conferences, but was only rarely assigned to visit local stakes of the church.

[LostGirl]

I love your podcasts, please keep going!

[Rob4Hope]

I liked the podcast to. The more I learn about Brigham Young, the more the guy creeps me out BAD....

He was a creep... and the stuff about Samuel Smith?...chilling.

[Hagoth]

I finally listened. What a fantastic piece of research, Consiglieri.

I didn't think this could happen to me anymore, but I was almost shocked by the blatant lies that were published in the History of the Church, particularly the ones where the wording of documents was intentionally changed to say the exact opposite of the original meaning. Mindboggling. I feel like vomiting.

[consiglieri]

I felt similarly as I was doing the research.

It was like a long series of WTF?! moments.

Glad you liked it!

[Emower]

The surprises just keep on coming no matter how far down the hole you go.

[Hagoth]

I felt similarly as I was doing the research.

It was like a long series of WTF?! moments.

Glad you liked it!

I have a favor to ask, Consiglieri (you have no obligation to comply, of course). Would it be possible to get a short list of the instances of intentionally modified documents and "remembered" experiences that you mentioned in the podcast?

[consiglieri]

Let me see if I can email you the outline.

It is kind of messy and may require a seer stone to interpret, but it is the least I can do!

[AllieOop]

He was a creep... and the stuff about Samuel Smith?...chilling.

Yes. What's interesting is that I have found that most active members have heard very little to nothing about Samuel Smith (nor do they know much about any of Joseph's siblings other than Hyrum). Very, very few know that it wasn't just 2 Smith brothers who died during the short Nauvoo years, but there were 4 Smith brothers who died (and 3 within about a month's time).

(And I second the "creep" reference above too!)

[deacon blues]

I felt similarly as I was doing the research.

It was like a long series of WTF?! moments.

Glad you liked it!

I have a favor to ask, Consiglieri (you have no obligation to comply, of course). Would it be possible to get a short list of the instances of intentionally modified documents and "remembered" experiences that you mentioned in the podcast?

I think such a list would be of great help in dealing with "carefully worded-denials."

[Hagoth]

I think such a list would be of great help in dealing with "carefully worded-denials."

Consiglieri was kind enough to share his notes with me. Great stuff. I will try to find some time to boil them down to a list of the most salient points and post them here.

[Emower]

I think such a list would be of great help in dealing with "carefully worded-denials."

Consiglieri was kind enough to share his notes with me. Great stuff. I will try to find some time to boil them down to a list of the most salient points and post them here.

I'll look forward to that.

[Korihor]

Interesting photograph. I noticed Eldred Smith and Richard Evans both had mustaches. Was that the last facial hair on the Brethren in the Church before it became verboten under the fog of utter conservatism?

Eldred is rockin' the cigars and porn 'stauche.

[MalcolmVillager]

I felt similarly as I was doing the research.

It was like a long series of WTF?! moments.

Glad you liked it!

Story of my FC.

Oh, you mean just for that one podcast

I seriously live your podcasts. They are the best. They bring a smile to my face and balance to my brain.

Keep up the great work!