The LDS Church Continues to Grow - Financially

[Grace2Daisy]

There has been a lot of discussion and posts regarding the incredible real estate holdings of the LDS Church. It continues it's growth by buying a three-building, 500,000 square foot office complex in Dallas, TX. According to the article Raytheon Corp.'s new office campus in Richardson's $1.5 billion CityLine project was sold to Property Reserve Inc., a real estate and investment arm of the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints.

The LDS Church is a corporation, and the Chairman of the Board is TSM, after all his official title is President of the Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Here is a link to the article: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... yline-sold

[Red Ryder]

I wonder if there's an increase in these types of development and real estate purchases and if so can it be correlated with the decline in tithing revenue?

As people continue to leave the church, tithing dollars and contributions continue to decline faster than converts and younger members bring in new money.

Is the church having to increase their investments like this to offset the decline in tithing? Or is this just par for the course?

Of course nobody knows because we don't see the financial statements.

[Emower]

Even God is becoming more financial savvy these days. Its a sign of the times!

[no1saint]

I wonder if there's an increase in these types of development and real estate purchases and if so can it be correlated with the decline in tithing revenue?

As people continue to leave the church, tithing dollars and contributions continue to decline faster than converts and younger members bring in new money.

Is the church having to increase their investments like this to offset the decline in tithing? Or is this just par for the course?

Of course nobody knows because we don't see the financial statements.

There is a massive increase of this type of purchases globally, but it's hard to substantiate without hard figures from the COB.

[wtfluff]

I get the wonderful opportunity of driving by "City Creek Riverton" on almost a daily basis.

Mountain View VIllage

Sure glad I paid my tithing so they could "donate" it to the "85-acre mixed-use development".

[Grace2Daisy]

I wonder if there's an increase in these types of development and real estate purchases and if so can it be correlated with the decline in tithing revenue?

As people continue to leave the church, tithing dollars and contributions continue to decline faster than converts and younger members bring in new money.

Is the church having to increase their investments like this to offset the decline in tithing? Or is this just par for the course?

Of course nobody knows because we don't see the financial statements.

In Canada they require the "religions" to submit their financial statements, and the LDS church complied with it's Canadian records. The LDS Church has played a money shell-game with "tithes and offerings" from duped and sacrificing Canadian members. No doubt, the same has happened in many other countries. For generations, Latter-day Saints have been kept in the dark by Mormonism's senior priesthood leadership about how their donated funds have been used. Thankfully, regulations in Canada and some other nations (but not the U.S.) have forced the "true" corporation to partially pull back its financial curtain.

Here is what is meant by shell game: In 2013 LDS Inc. registered 484 "Qualified Donees", 483 of which are Canadian wards and branches. Notably, there is one non-Canadian organization on the list: Brigham Young University. The sum of the listed "Total amount of gifts" for the 484 "Qualified Donees" is $115,126,701. How much tithing and other "offerings" from Canadian Latter-day Saints did the LDS Church funnel to BYU? According to the filed data, $102,900,000 (89.38%). So in short, the members in Canada gave $115,126,701 of tithing in a one year period, and the church donated $102,900,000 to BYU, no money officially to the COB in SLC?

They certainly did not inform Mormons in Canada that the lion's share of their donated monies would be used not to build chapels or temples or support the missionary program or for genealogy activities, but to pay the church's BYU bills. Why utilize the cash from unsuspecting Cdn. members that way? The likely answer is so that the LDS Church would not have to use ~$103M from its American sources to pay its university operating expenses, or possible sending it to BYU and then BYU deciding how to use or "invest" it.

What would be advantage of that arrangement? Millions of dollars could be funneled from LDS Inc.'s U.S. sources (BYU) to its wealth management company, Ensign Peak Advisors (EPA). For what purpose? Profitably trading financial instruments. So, the tithing money is moved to BYU, who then sends the money to the wealth management companies.

[Red Ryder]

What would be advantage of that arrangement? Millions of dollars could be funneled from LDS Inc.'s U.S. sources (BYU) to its wealth management company, Ensign Peak Advisors (EPA). For what purpose? Profitably trading financial instruments. So, the tithing money is moved to BYU, who then sends the money to the wealth management companies.

G2D, thanks for bringing up the BYU example.

The way I understand this stuff is that countries have laws and regulations that limit repatriation of cash or funds to foreign entities. The church (or any corporation) knows the loopholes and structures their holdings to maneuver accordingly. Canada may have laws and regulations that prevent the church from directly sending all of the collected money to the COB in SLC. However, the laws don't prevent cross border transactions to an educational organization. This allows the church to repatriate cash to itself while following the tax laws and regulations.

I personally don't have an issue with Canada members "funding" BYU because either way, BYU is getting funded through donations by members of the church. Does it matter if they get sent to the COB first, then BYU?

What I do have an issue with is the lack of transparency and accountability. If I'm a donor (shareholder) I better be getting a consolidated financial statement with a Management's Discussion & Analysis narrative and full disclosure of how, where, and what the church is doing with donated funds.

I have no other issues with how the church runs it's business, earns an ROE, or invests for future needs. As long as they make full disclosures and are accountable, I don't care what they do. Sure we can argue what they should be doing, like humanitarian, feeding the poor and hungry, paying for missions, remodeling Elder Bednar's basement, etcetera. However, if anyone doesn't like what they do or don't do, they can then vote with their wallets.

[oliver_denom]

I wonder if there's an increase in these types of development and real estate purchases and if so can it be correlated with the decline in tithing revenue?

As people continue to leave the church, tithing dollars and contributions continue to decline faster than converts and younger members bring in new money.

Is the church having to increase their investments like this to offset the decline in tithing? Or is this just par for the course?

Of course nobody knows because we don't see the financial statements.

My guess is that their financials are similar to their growth statistics. Maybe their revenues aren't shrinking, but they aren't growing either. They seem to have been consolidating wards and stakes this year, so that may signal a slow down in new meeting house construction. Could be a cost saving move.

[wtfluff]

What would be advantage of that arrangement? Millions of dollars could be funneled from LDS Inc.'s U.S. sources (BYU) to its wealth management company, Ensign Peak Advisors (EPA). For what purpose? Profitably trading financial instruments. So, the tithing money is moved to BYU, who then sends the money to the wealth management companies.

I don't know why I've never asked this question before: Does the "general public" have access to any sorts of financial statements from BYU?

Or does BYU fall under the "non-profit religious organization" that doesn't have to publish any financial information?

[Hagoth]

I wonder if there's an increase in these types of development and real estate purchases and if so can it be correlated with the decline in tithing revenue?

That's my takeaway. The church is making a land grab and focusing on becoming as profitable as possible with its material holdings because it sees something it will never share with us, that the magic leprechaun pot of tithing that has been pouring $6-8 billion in tax-exempt free money is starting to dry up. The fact that they see Africa as their only fertile ground for missionary expansion doesn't brighten the picture any.

I can almost visualize an organization that has become the richest church on earth but has written off its membership as a necessary loss because the local congregations are too expensive to maintain, and are hogging up too much valuable real estate. If the living members aren't coming through with the desired funds what good are they to a corporation that is focused on building a Kingdom of God on Earth that is measured in physical structures and square footage? They will be able to take comfort in all of the dead converts that they have garnered from the last big temples>tithing>temples push. The result may be a physical kingdom on earth and a membership that resides conveniently in the spirit world and makes no demands, asks no uncomfortable questions.

Of course I'm being a bit hyperbolic and sarcastic with all of this but we're just speculating, right?

[Hagoth]

What would be advantage of that arrangement? Millions of dollars could be funneled from LDS Inc.'s U.S. sources (BYU) to its wealth management company, Ensign Peak Advisors (EPA). For what purpose? Profitably trading financial instruments. So, the tithing money is moved to BYU, who then sends the money to the wealth management companies.

I don't know why I've never asked this question before: Does the "general public" have access to any sorts of financial statements from BYU?

Or does BYU fall under the "non-profit religious organization" that doesn't have to publish any financial information?

That's a great question. My guess is that there may be partial access but full disclosure would reveal the extent to which BYU is being used to launder money. The little bit of disclosure we can glean from Canada illustrates this. When they fired all of the custodians an amount almost exactly equal to the former salaries of the Canadian custodial staff appeared on the records as a charitable donation to BYU. Hmm.

[Thoughtful]

What would be advantage of that arrangement? Millions of dollars could be funneled from LDS Inc.'s U.S. sources (BYU) to its wealth management company, Ensign Peak Advisors (EPA). For what purpose? Profitably trading financial instruments. So, the tithing money is moved to BYU, who then sends the money to the wealth management companies.

I don't know why I've never asked this question before: Does the "general public" have access to any sorts of financial statements from BYU?

Or does BYU fall under the "non-profit religious organization" that doesn't have to publish any financial information?

That's a great question. My guess is that there may be partial access but full disclosure would reveal the extent to which BYU is being used to launder money. The little bit of disclosure we can glean from Canada illustrates this. When they fired all of the custodians an amount almost exactly equal to the former salaries of the Canadian custodial staff appeared on the records as a charitable donation to BYU. Hmm.

I read a discussion about this and someone said it's a better tax benefit to donate to BYU via Canada for whatever reason.

[Grace2Daisy]

What would be advantage of that arrangement? Millions of dollars could be funneled from LDS Inc.'s U.S. sources (BYU) to its wealth management company, Ensign Peak Advisors (EPA). For what purpose? Profitably trading financial instruments. So, the tithing money is moved to BYU, who then sends the money to the wealth management companies.

I don't know why I've never asked this question before: Does the "general public" have access to any sorts of financial statements from BYU?

Or does BYU fall under the "non-profit religious organization" that doesn't have to publish any financial information?

Given BYU is a private university they do not release any financial information. As an example, no one knows how much they spend on their football programs, nor how much they pay university employees. Does the LDS church use BYU to launder its money? Who knows?

[Grace2Daisy]

What would be advantage of that arrangement? Millions of dollars could be funneled from LDS Inc.'s U.S. sources (BYU) to its wealth management company, Ensign Peak Advisors (EPA). For what purpose? Profitably trading financial instruments. So, the tithing money is moved to BYU, who then sends the money to the wealth management companies.

G2D, thanks for bringing up the BYU example.

The way I understand this stuff is that countries have laws and regulations that limit repatriation of cash or funds to foreign entities. The church (or any corporation) knows the loopholes and structures their holdings to maneuver accordingly. Canada may have laws and regulations that prevent the church from directly sending all of the collected money to the COB in SLC. However, the laws don't prevent cross border transactions to an educational organization. This allows the church to repatriate cash to itself while following the tax laws and regulations.

I personally don't have an issue with Canada members "funding" BYU because either way, BYU is getting funded through donations by members of the church. Does it matter if they get sent to the COB first, then BYU?

What I do have an issue with is the lack of transparency and accountability. If I'm a donor (shareholder) I better be getting a consolidated financial statement with a Management's Discussion & Analysis narrative and full disclosure of how, where, and what the church is doing with donated funds.

I have no other issues with how the church runs it's business, earns an ROE, or invests for future needs. As long as they make full disclosures and are accountable, I don't care what they do. Sure we can argue what they should be doing, like humanitarian, feeding the poor and hungry, paying for missions, remodeling Elder Bednar's basement, etcetera. However, if anyone doesn't like what they do or don't do, they can then vote with their wallets.

One of my points in bring this up is the lack of transparency, even though they have found a loop hole in sending Canadian tithing to BYU, we have no idea if the money is then immediately sent to SLC's COB. My guess is the majority is funneled through BYU, but we'll never know. It is the shell game of the church.

[wtfluff]

Does the LDS church use BYU to launder its money? Who knows?

Ha! That's funny.

Aren't there other countries similar to Canada where LDS-Inc. has to publish financials? If I remember correctly, there are (England?) and those countries show the same thing: Large amounts going to BYU.

Occams Razor and all that stuff: Yes, BYU is the church's money laundering branch. (Along with other things...)

(Hi COB / SCMC lurkers.)

(Those of you who know me in real life - If I "disappear" from the DAMU, see the above sentence in parenthesis to figure out what happened to me. )

[Hagoth]

(Those of you who know me in real life - If I "disappear" from the DAMU, see the above sentence in parenthesis to figure out what happened to me. )

The NOM board has an amber alert poised to be deployed if that should happen.

[Hagoth]

Here's a fascinating article that details a specific example of the duplicitous holy mafia management style of God's Kingdom on Earth:
https://m.cityweekly.net/utah/warrior-s ... id=4802182

[Hagoth]

Some of the church's modest holdings:

Media:
Bonneville International – Media holding company
Bonneville Communications – Full service marketing firm.
Bonneville Broadcasting – Radio stations
97.3 FM KIRO Radio Seattle
710 AM ESPN Seattle
770 AM KTTH Seattle
92.3 FM KTAR News Phoenix
98.7 FM Arizona Sports Phoenix
620 AM ESPN Phoenix
101 FM KOSI Denver
98.5 FM KTGO Denver
104.3 FM KKFN Denver
1600 AM KEPN Denver
102.7 FM & 1160 AM KSL Salt Lake City
103.5 FM KRSP Salt Lake City
100.3 FM KSFI Salt Lake City
Bonneville Distribution – Distribution for TV & radio stations that broadcast Mormon Tabernacle Choir and LDS General Conference
KSL 5 TV – NBC TV station
Deseret Digital Media – Website management company
Deseret News Publishing – News publishing company
Deseret Book Co. – Religious goods retailer and distributor
Covenant Communications
Seagull Book & Tape
Shadow Mountain Press
Excel Entertainment
The Pacific Business News – News outlet servicing Hawaii

Agriculture:
South Valley Farms
Deseret Cattle and Citrus
Elberta Valley AG Deseret Farms California
Sooner Cattle Company ranch.
Deseret Ranches in Florida
Boardman Tree Farm
Winnecook Ranch in Montana
AgriNorthwest farming in southeast Washington
Deseret Land and Livestock
AG Reserves – Agricultural holding company
AgriNorthwest (Washington) – 60,000 acre farm growing potatoes and wheat
Boardman Tree Farm (Washington) – 25,000 acre tree farm
Winnecook Ranch (Montana) – 50,000 acre cattle ranch and dry farm
Sheridan Ranches (Wyoming)
South Valley Farms (California) – Grows almonds and pistachios
Deseret Farms (California) – Grows walnuts and prunes
Deseret Land & Lifestock (Utah) – Approx. 200,000 acres cattle & sheep ranch
Elberta Valley Ag (Utah) – 160 acre dairy cow ranch
Rex Ranch (Nebraska) – 228,000 acre cattle ranch
Deseret Cattle Feeders (Kansas)
Sooner Cattle Company (Oklahoma) 70,000 acre cattle ranch
Triangle Ranch (Texas) – 120,000 acre ranch
Deseret Ranches (Florida) – 300,000 acre cattle ranch
Unknown Name – 383,000 acre timber ranch
Trail Creek and Livestock (Montana)
Sun Ranch (Wyoming)
Deseret Ranches of Alberta – 100,000 acre cattle ranch
Deseret Ranches – 66,000 acre cattle ranch
Deseret Farms of Texas – 10,000 acre farm

Real Estate:
Brigham Apartments in Salt Lake City.
Hukilau Beach in Laie Hawaii.
City Creek Center mall in downtown Salt Lake City.
Brigham Apartments in Salt Lake City
Apartments to be built in Philadelphia.
World Trade Center in Salt Lake City
First Avenue apartments in Sale Lake City
City Creek Apartments in Salt Lake City.
Deseret Book corporate headquarters.
Beneficial Gateway Tower West
Ensign Plaza South in Ogden, Utah.
Laie Shopping Center.
Deseret News building in Downtown Salt Lake City.
Hawaii Reserves – Hawaii real estate holding company
Laie Water Company – Provides water to all of Laie
Laie Shopping Center – 72,000 square feet of shopping and services
Laie Park – Laie Hawaii park
Laie Cemetery – Laie cemetary
Hukilau Beach Park – Beach park in Laie
Many other commercial & residential properties
Property Reserve Inc – Real estate holding company
Utah Property Management Associates – Real estate management company

Commercial Properties:
Beneficial Tower – 20 story office building
World Trade Center Utah– 366,696 square foot office building
Deseret News Building – 9 story office building
Eagle Gate Plaza – 11 story office and parking structure
Key Bank Tower – 27 floor office building
Social Hall Plaza – 6 floor office building
Triad Tower – 3 buildings totaling 48,502 square feet
Zions Bank Building – 18 floor commercial office building
139 E South Temple – 38,192 square foot office building
JC Penney Building – 15 floor commercial office building
Ensign Plaza South – 75,000 office building in Ogden Utah
Regent Street – 47,970 square foot office building
Orpheum Office Plaza – 24.682 square foot office building
McIntyre Building – 11,065 square foot office building
Gateway Tower West – 19 floor commercial building
40 East 100 South – 37,089 square foot office building
Deseret Book Building – 48,612 square foot office building

Residential Properties:
Brigham Apartments – Apartment building in downtown Salt Lake
Colonial Court Apartments – Apartment building in Ogden Utah
Eagle Gate Apartments –
Gateway Condominiums
City Creek Landing – Apartment building in downtown Salt Lake
West Temple Apartments – 8 story apartment building in downtown Salt Lake
Garden Apartments – Apartment building in downtown Salt Lake
First Avenue Apartments – Apartments in Salt Lake City

Mixed Use Properties:
City Creek Center – 700,000 square foot mall in downtown Salt Lake
Lake Park Corporate Centre – 260 acrea mixed use development
Highbury at Lake Park – Mixed use development in West Valley, Utah
Shoal Creek Valley (Liberty, Missouri)
1600 Vine Street Complex – Mixed use development in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Other:
Temple Square Hospitality (Catering Company)
Beneficial Financial Group (Insurance and Financial Services Company)

[no1saint]

Does the LDS church use BYU to launder its money? Who knows?

Ha! That's funny.

Aren't there other countries similar to Canada where LDS-Inc. has to publish financials? If I remember correctly, there are (England?) and those countries show the same thing: Large amounts going to BYU.

Occams Razor and all that stuff: Yes, BYU is the church's money laundering branch. (Along with other things...)

(Hi COB / SCMC lurkers.)

(Those of you who know me in real life - If I "disappear" from the DAMU, see the above sentence in parenthesis to figure out what happened to me. )

Yes, New Zealand and the UK.

https://www.register.charities.govt.nz ... 541146ad57

http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Sh ... yNumber=0

[no1saint]

That excess of 26,788,000 is most likely the result of an injection of funds from the US. So what did they buy in the UK this year?

http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Sh ... ryNumber=0