70 ex'ed

[wtfluff]

FB says page cannot be displayed...

Try this:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/08/08/h ... 3-decades/

[Rob4Hope]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

This is hilarious. Didn't he recently work in the Church History Department?

I wonder if he was the 70 that met with Grant Palmer?

That is EXACTLY What has been going through my mind....

[Red Ryder]

Maybe we should start a post to help him choose his own underwear. He's probably not used to such trivial human decisions.

[LostGirl]

I feel bad that at first I felt some enjoyment at the spectacle. If no criminal charges turn up, then I feel sorry for the guy for the complete public shaming. Since when is it OK to release ex-communications to the press, especially with enough vague detail about what it was NOT to cause endless speculation as to the cause? I can only imagine what it feels like to be his family at the moment.

[AllieOop]

Could be the seventy that was talking to Palmer. That may fit.

ETA:

(Ok....Darn RR....always beating me to the punch ).

But if this is who it is, the church would want to make an example of him for the other GAs to see, by publicly shaming him.

[Silver Girl]

I can't imagine how devastating this will be for him, his family and everyone who knows them. Whatever he did, couldn't it have been handled more gracefully? We have often discussed here what would happen to a GA's life if he lost his testimony. Regardless of whether Hamula boinked the babysitter or denied the Holy Prophet this is a warning shot across the bow of anyone else out there who might have the potential of drifting out of line.

Considering how this man's life is about to come unraveled, imagine how monumentally worse it would be for an apostle.

I was just thinking this. Reddit Exmo is going crazy right now. I'm sure Dehlin is reaching out for an interview.

The man's life just got turned upside down. Even if the church is insignificant on a global scale, millions of people right now are wondering "what did he do?" How about we give him some space and time to recover from what must have been a very difficult experience.

Mr Hamula, if you just need a shoulder to lean on, I'm here for you.

I agree with you. I feel for his entire family. The church creates the impression that it is the only "world" you're in, and this type of public thing would be so difficult to live through. I'm sure there are many people who will never see the news, and won't care about it even if they did, but this man's family has to feel they're the biggest news of the entire day. Which, for anyone related to the church, is true. But we all know the church is not the real world.

John Dehlin, Jeremy Runnells and others were publicly ex'd, but the reasons were well known, and even though it had to be tough to go through, they knew they had a community of support. I don't know what Hamula did (or failed to do), so I can't speak to supporting him on that, but I do support the right of his family to have some peace and privacy.

[Silver Girl]

I feel bad that at first I felt some enjoyment at the spectacle. If no criminal charges turn up, then I feel sorry for the guy for the complete public shaming. Since when is it OK to release ex-communications to the press, especially with enough vague detail about what it was NOT to cause endless speculation as to the cause? I can only imagine what it feels like to be his family at the moment.

I don't think it was outright "released" - the story is worded in a way that makes me think it was leaked. Even the "not for disillusionment or apostasy" phrase is not an actual quote - someone in the church "confirmed" those were not the reasons. That implies it was in response to a question. The church may come out with an actual news release (or may have already done it), but it will be damage control rather than getting ahead of the story.

[Red Ryder]

Could be the seventy that was talking to Palmer. That may fit.

ETA:

(Ok....Darn RR....always beating me to the punch ).

But if this is who it is, the church would want to make an example of him for the other GAs to see, by publicly shaming him.

I agree. They may be firing a warning shot to all the other GA's to let them know to obey or be kicked out. Whatever it is, it's big enough to warrant public PR damage.

I guess this means that he didn't have his 2nd Annointing?

Tom Phillips still hasn't been exed, so this really is an interesting dilemma. Popcorn is popping on the apricot tree!

[2bizE]

I also asked this question on Reddit...
Why was his disciplinary counsel conducted by the Q15?
I always thought the local stake had jurisdiction unless the person lived in a place without a stake or district.
Sounds fishy. They wanted to keep something covered up. Like it was something illegal like child porn or molestation.

[Rob4Hope]

I also asked this question on Reddit...
Why was his disciplinary counsel conducted by the Q15?
I always thought the local stake had jurisdiction unless the person lived in a place without a stake or district.
Sounds fishy. They wanted to keep something covered up. Like it was something illegal like child porn or molestation.

I also wondered about the decision being made by the Q15. They are hiding something bigger. Rather than that, they could have released him from his calling for undisclosed reasons, and then after a few months, had his stake do the dirty.

Something is being hidden which is probably bigger as opposed to smaller.

[Red Ryder]

I also asked this question on Reddit...
Why was his disciplinary counsel conducted by the Q15?
I always thought the local stake had jurisdiction unless the person lived in a place without a stake or district.
Sounds fishy. They wanted to keep something covered up. Like it was something illegal like child porn or molestation.

Or sex on the roof with a student?

Probably not, that seems more like a sin a seminary teacher would commit (again).

[AllieOop]

This makes me wonder if it was the 70 who was talking to Palmer (from the DN article):

"In rare cases the decision of a disciplinary council may be shared publicly to prevent others from being harmed through misinformation"

They are trying to silence him. And exing him is effective as no good TBM will listen to him now.

And, yes...RR....I can't believe he hasn't received his 2nd anointing which makes this almost a mock, public exing.

[2bizE]

A few more thoughts....
1) we should get ahold of him and invite him to NOM. I will volunteer to be his virtual home teacher.
2) the real reason will come out in time. Someone who knows will be upset and leak the info.
3) I bet he is pissed. Do you think he had signed some non disclosure agreement?
4) he is now a statistic for exmos. What will be said at the next GC?
5) I feel sorry for his family... Immediately ostracized by ward members, family, friends.
6) I guess he will be looking for a Job? Or did he get a big severance package?

[Red Ryder]

I'm speculating here, but at first I'm thinking the Palmer time line doesn't fit. But maybe it does. Wasn't the Palmer GA secret conversation around 2010 or 2012? How ironic would that be if he met with Palmer and then later got assigned to the Church History Dept and correlation committee? Maybe he weasels his way in there with a motive to expose everything and gets caught with documents stuffed in his mesh garment bottoms? They decide to publicly exe him as a form of humiliation knowing it's a kangaroo court because he's received his second anointing.

They disclose that it's not apostasy or disillusionment so that members and his peers automatically think of moral issues, effectively silencing him. I hope he sings like a canary but I bet he signed a non disclosure agreement.

[RubinHighlander]

I'm speculating here, but at first I'm thinking the Palmer time line doesn't fit. But maybe it does. Wasn't the Palmer GA secret conversation around 2010 or 2012? How ironic would that be if he met with Palmer and then later got assigned to the Church History Dept and correlation committee? Maybe he weasels his way in there with a motive to expose everything and gets caught with documents stuffed in his mesh garment bottoms? They decide to publicly exe him as a form of humiliation knowing it's a kangaroo court because he's received his second anointing.

They disclose that it's not apostasy or disillusionment so that members and his peers automatically think of moral issues, effectively silencing him. I hope he sings like a canary but I bet he signed a non disclosure agreement.

+1

I can totally see them using a sex sin to cover up a greater sin of leaking or exposing historical truth claims. It will be very disappointing if it's just a sex sin! That church court with the 15, if it was recorded, would be gold!

[Hagoth]

But if this is who it is, the church would want to make an example of him for the other GAs to see, by publicly shaming him.

The mid-level chief who gets decapitated in front of his tribe to remind everyone what happens when you don't toe the line.

[wtfluff]

Ya know... I can't find anywhere where "The Church" has posted an "official" statement about this.

As close as I can find would be the article on KSL. EDIT: There's also a Deseret news article... I guess between KSL and Deseret news, that's aboot as "official" as it gets?

Maybe this was not intended for "Public Consumption" and was "leaked", and the informant made the "action was not taken because of disillusionment or apostasy" which forced Eric Hawkins to admit such.


I just can't fathom the Corporation publishing this without being "forced". Especially on the "day of" his excommunication. I think they would have much rather just "released" him under the radar with no public fanfare.

Who remembers the whole George P. Lee excommunication? Was it done to much public fanfare? (I was on a 2-year forced, unpaid sales-gig in South America when Lee got Exed. I was in a bubble, and don't remember exactly when or where I heard aboot Lee...)

[Just This Guy]

LDS Church spokesman Eric Hawkins provided no details about the removal. But the church did confirm Hamula was no longer a member of the church and that his ouster was not for apostasy or disillusionment.

Knowing the church, I would not be surprised at all of this is a complete lie. How better to defect from a loss of faith than to deny is completely. Set everyone off looking all over the place for any other reason than what it actually is. Pure speculation though on my part.

Whatever it was, it would be an embarrassment to the institution if it were known. This church has shown they will throw their weight around if it mean that they protect their own. I doubt it was something like an affair. They would mostly likely intimidate or flatter them into silence. Whatever it was, it was something where it is better to have him out entirely.

[Hagoth]

Ya know... I can't find anywhere where "The Church" has posted an "official" statement about this.

President Newsroom just updated his status with the minimum possible info (scroll to the bottom):
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/e ... s-j-hamula

[Unendowed]

I think there is a lot of wishful thinking going on here. The likely hood of this being related to a loss of faith is slim to none. A high ranking GA losing his faith would be damaging to the church and they would do anything to prevent that story from hitting the press. By specifically stating it was not for "disillusionment or apostasy" shows that that is only thing the church fears. Hans Mattsson basically called the church total BS and, as far as I know, hasn't had any discipline. Exing a leader for adultery or some other serious sin is no skin off the church's back. Members see this kind of thing from time to time and it doesn't really shake their testimonies. My guess is this story was likely to get out anyways and the church is just getting ahead of it.