Selective Cultural Memory

[Hagoth]

I was listening to Lindsay Hansen Park's interview about the Snufferites on RadioWest last week and she mentioned a story about a vision seen at the dedication of the Kirtland temple. I had to see it in print and found it in The Oxford Handbook of Mormonism, edited by Terryl Givens, Chapter 32 by Michael D. Hicks.

We often hear inspirational stories about people seeing angels and hearing choirs but why don't we ever hear the story about a heavenly steamboat that was seen hovering in the air near the temple?

We also never hear that liquor (wine spiced with something else) was passed around in the meeting and the visions were consistently reported by the drinkers but not those who remained sober, and that a container had to be provided for Samuel Smith's fits of vomiting?

It makes you realize how selective our cultural memory is. I guess the ultimate example of this is the treasure digging origins of the church, which were almost completely quelled by the institution until Mr. Quinn (and Mr. Internet) came along and spoiled everything.

[SeeNoEvil]

Great observation! Dang that internet! It came along and spoiled so many stories! Much is to be said about our ancestors and our own incredible story telling abilities. The more the story is told the more is added or taken away to make our stories more interesting.

We also never hear that liquor (wine spiced with something else) was passed around in the meeting and the visions were consistently reported by the drinkers but not those who remained sober, and that a container had to be provided for Samuel Smith's fits of vomiting?

This is priceless!

[Red Ryder]

Don't forget the drinkers were probably fasting too.

Hagoth, what page number?

I'm looking through the book here but not all pages are shown.

Never mind, I found it on page 504.

Link fairy says:

https://books.google.com/books?id=Es4fC ... &q&f=false

[1smartdodog]

Sad part is how most TBM types think they have the whole story.

I once in gospel doctrine heard the self appointed expert say they had studied church history to the point they felt confident they new everything. I remember thinking you know very little about church history or you would not be so boastful. Her memory was very selective.

[Hagoth]

Sad part is how most TBM Troyes think they have the whole story.

I once in gospel doctrine heard the self appointed expert say they had studied church history to the point they felt confident they new everything. I remember thinking you know very little about church history or you would not be so boastful. Her memory was very selective.

The heavenly steamboat has now become my litmus test for people who claim to have "studied everything."

[wtfluff]

Sad part is how most TBM Troyes think they have the whole story.

I once in gospel doctrine heard the self appointed expert say they had studied church history to the point they felt confident they new everything. I remember thinking you know very little about church history or you would not be so boastful. Her memory was very selective.

The heavenly steamboat has now become my litmus test for people who claim to have "studied everything."

Here's another good question I heard yesterday for the True-Believing folks who "have always known about Joseph's polygamy".

Question: You've always known about it eh? Can you name 2 or 3 of Joseph's polygamous wives? (He had between 30 and 40 according to LDS.org. Should be "easy" to remember 2 or three of them, shouldn't it?)

[PalmSprings]

I was listening to Lindsay Hansen Park's interview about the Snufferites on RadioWest last week and she mentioned a story about a vision seen at the dedication of the Kirtland temple. I had to see it in print and found it in The Oxford Handbook of Mormonism, edited by Terryl Givens, Chapter 32 by Michael D. Hicks.

We often hear inspirational stories about people seeing angels and hearing choirs but why don't we ever hear the story about a heavenly steamboat that was seen hovering in the air near the temple?

We also never hear that liquor (wine spiced with something else) was passed around in the meeting and the visions were consistently reported by the drinkers but not those who remained sober, and that a container had to be provided for Samuel Smith's fits of vomiting?

It makes you realize how selective our cultural memory is. I guess the ultimate example of this is the treasure digging origins of the church, which were almost completely quelled by the institution until Mr. Quinn (and Mr. Internet) came along and spoiled everything.

This is probably one of the most disturbing posts on NOM I have read. It pretty much debunks the whole foundation of revelation and enlightenment that the church claims.

[Hagoth]

This is probably one of the most disturbing posts on NOM I have read. It pretty much debunks the whole foundation of revelation and enlightenment that the church claims.

Pretty much every supernatural, inspirational story that we hear in church evaporates when you scratch through the shiny veneer.

Here's an excellent example: http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2013/ ... -fire.html

Another is Lorenzo Snow's supposed visit with Jesus Christ. We hear this story so frequently despite the fact that its provenance is absurdly tenuous. We only have one story since Joseph Smith that claims actual face-to-face communication with deity and it turns out to be pure vapor*. What does that suggest about the common assumption of members that our prophets actually talk to God? Or any other miraculous events?

In all of our back patting over these miracle stories we completely disregard and/or disrespect all of the other churches that make similar claims. Literally thousands of Catholics, often entire crowds of people, have seen the Virgin Mary. It is pretty arrogant to suggest that all of those people are crazy while our trumped up rumors are fully legit.

*If you haven't heard the real story I can fill you in at the risk of repeating myself.