shadow wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:23 pm
Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:57 pm
Nomers...if your spouse decided to tank it up, and ballooned to over 350/400 lbs, would you be thrilled to love him/her like Jesus?...this line is subjective of course. Unfortunately religious statements/dogma like I've shown DOES mess with it. You risk becoming shame based, or at least shamed driven. You consider: Well, I will stay in this marriage, even though my partner is
hurting me, because Jesus would stay in. And thus you turn the other cheek, while you have an unwilling partner who has let themselves go.
I think the original premise wondering about the potential effect that comparing one's willingness die for their spouse with Jesus Christ can have on one's willingness to stay in a toxic marriage is an interesting question. I see it as a potentially a question of degrees. By definition, marriage is a public and legal commitment to a relationship. An underlying premise is that stable, committed families create a stable society, so we, as a society, have instituted marriage as a policy incentive to create that. There are lost of historical and religious aspects to who and how they can get married that isn't really the point of this thread, but my basic point is that by entering into a marriage, we are committing to another person.
Some marriages don't work and ultimately become unhealthy or even abusive. I have no idea about statistics of whether adherents to orthodox religions stick in abusive marriages longer than others. Anecdotally, the original quote resonates with LDS experience, and it wouldn't surprise me if orthodox religions had a higher percentage of people in unhealthy and abusive marriages stay married.
Physical intimacy and financial cooperation are definitely important aspect of a healthy marriage, so those make more sense to me as aspects that could contribute to a large degree discontent. But even in those instances, communication and a mutual desire to accommodate each other's needs can work through a lot. Alternatively, an unwillingness to do that would be more the harbinger of a doomed marriage than the underlying complaint.
What I don't understand is your example with respect to weight. In particular, I'd love to hear why you think that an overweight spouse "is hurting" the other spouse. What? Are people out there intentionally gaining weight because they want to hurt their spouse? I could understand concern for a spouse's health if they're overweight and a desire for the spouse to be healthier, but your concern seems entirely separated from concern for the spouse and only about whether the [supposedly] fit spouse finds the other one attractive. That's perspective seems self-centered and objectifying to me. If being skinny is what one's marriage commitment hangs on, maybe the overweight spouse should be the one considering divorce.
I'm quoting shadow, because with one exception, I agree with this post. Marriage doesn't become abusive. The abuser is abusive before the marriage and brings it into the marriage. This is an important distinction. So many people think that marital counseling is the solution for abuse. It isn't. There are a few reasons why, but I'll concentrate on this one. As I stated, abusers bring it into the marriage. The victim brings their own parcel of problems into the marriage. The two parties have to fix themselves to a certain degree first before marital counseling will work.
I'm going to out myself a little, here. First of all, I'm obese. Very much, so. I don't enjoy it. Part of it is I eat as a way to cope. I'm going to out myself another way. I had never heard the term "self-abuse" before becoming a NOM. I thought self-abuse was mistreating and disrespecting yourself and not eating right and exercising would definitely not fall under that category. So, when I clicked on the first thread I ever saw with the term "self abuse" in the title, it was the end of some innocence for me. That back story is to tell you that I would rather treat myself poorly when I'm frustrated than others and yes, I know it's not healthy. Oh well. Another part is I have a job that keeps me chained to my desk. I may want to move around more, but gotta pay the bills. Oh well.
Next, I don't know if I am, but I believe I have strong leanings toward asexuality. Having said that, in my marriage, I put out every other day and, God, this is no one's business. Anyway, my ex complained it wasn't enough for him. So, some of the other posters have a point about where exactly the line is drawn. My ex complained I spent all his money, but he absconded with mine, was deadbeat for over a year and I can prove it. Nevertheless, our divorce case was extremely unusual, because we walked away from our respective tables very solvent. So, of my ex were reading this thread, he'd jump on and sing, very loudly. In fact, I have a feeling this is behind a lot of the pushback I received from the men in my ward. So...Oh, well.
Back to the asexuality thing. First of all, my ex and I could both claim our marriage left us sexually traumatized. Yet, he's in a new relationship and I am not. I've been offered to be set up and one man did show interest, but I was raising my sons and, no. I didn't make myself a martyr. We are all now free and I can tell you. I'm uninterested. Not that I'm ruling out relationships entirely, but I have a whole lot of other things I'd rather do first. I think that answers a lot of questions.
I could say more on that, but it would only vary the theme. Instead, I'm going to answer the question as gently as I can from the demographic's in question point of view.
First of all, I agree with shadow. She doesn't want to be overweight. There is a lot behind this and many could write for a long time, but I can tell you obese people don't want to be. Not only does it look bad, but it feels bad. It's debilitating. It's frustrating.
Second of all, I was raised with two ideas. The standard of purity that gets lots of time on here, but also to not have sex with someone who disrespected me. In the young women context, this was always a horny young priesthood holder. It was never broached that the disrespecting party could be ones husband, but it can. Disrespect from my ex was a regular part of my day. The yelling, the screaming, the insults, the creepy behavior that I'm now remember that elevated the abuse into a whole new arena. Know what would happen when the evening came? Sex. No apology. No working out of hurt feelings. Just sex, because I was his wife and that's what I do.
In your scenario of the many frustrated partners, I'm wondering if it's more than asexuality. If one party believes that sex is a right and the other believes they shouldn't be having sex with someone who disrespects them, then I see a lot of potential for unhealthy sexual tension there. I don't have the answers to that. You'll notice, I'm divorced.
I'll tell you I didn't want to spend as much money as I did, but a lot of the money I spent was my ex was so blinking angry all the time that I was searching for ways to put a smile on his face and those ways did end up costing money. In addition to merchants don't check with people to see if raising prices is okay with them. Things cost what they do.
Bottom lining the scorned object's point of view from my perspective, I'm going to say this as gently as I can. She probably senses that you view her in these very unflattering ways. As I've illustrated, she's doing her best and she can't seem to get it right.
I'm going to post this and add a little bit in my next post.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren
