Young Woman's Testimony Censored

[moksha]

This was both interesting and sad. Given the past postings of the person recording this video, it seemed like a set up to provoke a robotic response from any presiding TBM, and the forthcoming robotic response illustrated the gulf between the ideal as taught by Jesus and the reality of our Church. It could have been worse and the speaker afterward didn't try to shame her, but instead seemed conciliatory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_0nhyP ... e=youtu.be

[moksha]

It was rather couragious for this beehive girl to bear her testimony in such a manner. Not many kids that age feel compelled to talk about their divine nature, but it made sense considering the issues she is having to face. For her to declare she was not God's mistake brought to the forefront the message she had received from the Church about herself. Yikes! Inducing shame and self-doubt is not the stuff of a good approach to religion.

I imagine this video will go viral among young Mormons. Most likely they will side with Savanah.

The Church leader did not have to react in such a fashion. The testimony, which seemed heartfelt, would have served the purpose of waking members up to what the young girl was trying to express, that God is accepting of her even if her Church is unaccepting. The unacceptable point young Mormons will probably experience was the turning off her microphone and asking her to sit down, even if the testimony induced this overreaction. The presiding Stake Councilman had the free agency not to act as a censorious robot defending an unfortunate Church policy.

[Emower]

I thought this was interesting as well. I am an LGBT supporter, but I dont know how she, or her parents, could have expected anything different. We all know that the church is unhealthy for LGBT people. We all know they do not like "false doctrine" preached from the pulpit. We all know that the presiding authority will feel a need to refute anything he doesnt agree with. It has happened to me before on relatively minor stuff.

If it were a man preaching that adultery was fine and we all should just accept adulterers for who they are, would reddit be so up in arms about it happening to that guy? Regardless of your position on consensual adults doing what they want, this guy would have gotten censored too, just from the pure fact that it is going against what the church teaches. I also dont think we would hear about it if it happened to that guy, even if he was maybe a 14 year old boy. I thought she got away with a fair amount.

I am not trying to denigrate or minimize her bravery, feelings, or authenticity. I am trying to understand why reddit and facebook are blowing up about this when we knew, and likely Savannah knew, what the reaction was going to be beforehand.

What I thought was super crappy was that the presiding guy told her to sit down, then instructed the conducting guy to go up and salvage the meeting. He should have shown some Cojones and got up himself.

This seems to be an unpopular opinion though.

[Hagoth]

It could have been worse and the speaker afterward didn't try to shame her, but instead seemed conciliatory.

Yeah, that guy was plunked right into that uncomfortable spot between the proverbial rock of authority and hard place of moral action. He tried to find a middle ground but his words about loving and acceptance really rang hollow in the context of the unloving and unaccepting situation that had just played out. I would have really admired the guy if he had just switched the microphone back on, or if he had addressed his remarks directly to the SP councilor.

That is exactly how you make loyal leaders. You put them in uncomfortable situations where there is pressure to side with their superiors rather than their morals. It was not the job of the ward leader to answer to the shameful behavior in the first place, the stake leader lacked both the spine to shut up and let a little girl express her most sensitive feelings and the balls to stand up and explain himself. To quote a famous tweeter: sad.

[Hagoth]

I thought this was interesting as well. I am an LGBT supporter, but I don't know how she, or her parents, could have expected anything different.

Yes, but it could have been done in a better way. He could have walked up and put his arm around the girl and and whispered in her ear. The mike switch-off and line of authority commandment was pretty heavy-handed. Or he could have let her finish and then got up HIMSELF, thanked her for her honesty and then repeated the standard church line about how we love and accept everyone, but the church doesn't condone certain behaviors, or he could have directed the congregation to the church-approved website: mormonandgay.lds.org. His actions said "we don't accept you and we want you to go away." That is not what the official website says (of course, it's not what The Brethren really think either.)

My bigger concern is whether this was really the girl's idea or whether she felt pressured by her parents to do it.

[Corsair]

This "Game of Thrones" meme was posted in reddit/r/exmormon in response:

[redjay]

It hurt me that this girl's plea for acceptance was rejected.

However, although my impulse was sadness and anger, accompanied by a desire to post the video on facebook. I did not post it (I rarely post anything). To some extent my awareness and subsequent silence is consent for the organisation.

So I ask myself, how sternly can I judge the TBM's on the stand when I take no action?

[Give It Time]

I admire her courage and saying what needed to be said. I don't know why anyone would expect different in this situation. In fact, it could have gone much, much worse. I understand the responsibility the leadership holds to control the message that goes out over the pulpit. Yes, it could have been done better, but we're all humans, after all. If I were in their shoes, under that kind of pressure, having the responsibility to make that what is spoken over the pulpit aligns with church doctrine, I don't know if I would have done differently. I do think I would have stood up and spoken, rather than have someone else do it. It was my actions, my choice. I would have backed it up with my words.

The burr under my collar is that this was filmed. Yes, a beautiful, loving response could have been caught on camera and splashed all over the internet, but I think the person filming knew that wouldn't be the case. Sitting here in my dark cove, not knowing anything behind this and how it was done. This looks like a type of "embarrass the church" behavior. Anyone who sees this more compassionately, please speak up.

[LaMachina]

I am not trying to denigrate or minimize her bravery, feelings, or authenticity. I am trying to understand why reddit and facebook are blowing up about this when we knew, and likely Savannah knew, what the reaction was going to be beforehand.

Yeah, I understand that reaction within the current climate of cycling outrage and outrage fatigue but it seems to be the case for many, many situations. We know some things are pretty much guaranteed - Another terrorist attack will occur, Trump will tweet something else ridiculous, a cop will do something racist, a religion will be sexist or homophobic and it will ramp up the internets indignation. Some of it will get overblown but some of it will be entirely justified. And then it will simmer down til the next thing.

But certain things are guaranteed to increase the lifecycle of outrage. Video evidence, cute kids speaking sincerely from their heart and grown men being dicks in response to that sincerity, certainly fit that bill. And sometimes having you preconceptions confirmed merits a little media coverage and banging your fist on the press table.

The burr under my collar is that this was filmed. Yes, a beautiful, loving response could have been caught on camera and splashed all over the internet, but I think the person filming knew that wouldn't be the case. Sitting here in my dark cove, not knowing anything behind this and how it was done. This looks like a type of "embarrass the church" behavior. Anyone who sees this more compassionately, please speak up.

I've seen this sentiment expressed in a few places and frankly I'm a little confused by it. This girl had obviously prepared what she was going to say, her parents and others knew what she was going to say but that doesn't make it some conspiracy to make the church look bad. Many, many things are filmed these days and, while I personally think there is way too much oversharing on the various social media platforms, it's quite possible this was done simply to share with close friends and family and perhaps give encouragement to other kids who feel left out in the religions of their birth. Had it been positive it may have made a few waves but the only reason it's blown up like this is because that guy handled it like an absolute douche. I don't know the guy, it's quite possible he is a fantastic person but that brief moment is not a good look for him or the church and that's entirely on them, not this kid.

[moksha]

Here is young Savanah interviewed in a podcast. Apparently, Savanah had been working on her testimony for several months, ever since she got the idea of bearing it in Church.

http://iliketolookforrainbows.com/2017/ ... ahs-story/

Back during WWII, the Church publically denounced young LDS Helmet Hübener for his protests against Nazism. They might cast stones at young Savanah at the apologetic Mormon D&D board, but I think at some point they will have an acceptance of Savanah much like they did later on with Helmet Hübener.

[Give It Time]

Thank you, Moksha and LM. Sometimes the being able to see things from another view is automatic. Sometimes, I need help.

[Mormorrisey]

Man, open mic Sunday is worrisome for most leaders, wondering what would happen. Some really crazy stuff can come out, but that's the nature of the beast - I'm pretty confident that I would have let Savannah say her piece without commentary. I had other people say crazier crap - what was always interesting, was other members felt the need to correct it, when I refused. I just sat there. And then get berated for not "fixing" it. I'd just smile, and say, interesting meeting, eh?

And frankly, if that had happened, that the leaders just ignored it, this is a non-issue, and Savannah would have had her say. And then this is not even a thread. As to other people putting her up to it, I've heard enough primary children say "the church is true" and be pretty confident that they were put up to it as well, so again, another non-issue for me. She still wrote down the words and had the lady stones to say them, so hats off to her. Other than saying she hopes to marry another woman one day, how is what she said different than what can be found on mormonandgay.org? A pretty tame testimony to be shut off, so I don't know what all the fuss is about. Good for her, and I'm glad she got support afterwards.

[FreeFallin]

If it were a man preaching that adultery was fine and we all should just accept adulterers for who they are, would reddit be so up in arms about it happening to that guy?

Well... Actually, the Church and its members DO promote acceptance AND defend adultery in the form of "Celestial Marriage" as Joseph Smith practiced. We have an official church essay to tell us how it is really ok -- and not only ok but God's will.

And as others have said, even if this were premeditated, even if adults were pressuring this girl to stand up and speak, even if someone was recording this in an effort to make the church look bad, the response of the stake member silencing this young girl and embarrassing her in front of the congregation was real.

This is a raw and real reflection of what the church stands for.

[Hagoth]

And as others have said, even if this were premeditated, even if adults were pressuring this girl to stand up and speak, even if someone was recording this in an effort to make the church look bad, the response of the stake member silencing this young girl and embarrassing her in front of the congregation was real.

This is a raw and real reflection of what the church stands for.

Amen!

[Give It Time]

Man, open mic Sunday is worrisome for most leaders, wondering what would happen. Some really crazy stuff can come out, but that's the nature of the beast - I'm pretty confident that I would have let Savannah say her piece without commentary. I had other people say crazier crap - what was always interesting, was other members felt the need to correct it, when I refused. I just sat there. And then get berated for not "fixing" it. I'd just smile, and say, interesting meeting, eh?

And frankly, if that had happened, that the leaders just ignored it, this is a non-issue, and Savannah would have had her say. And then this is not even a thread. As to other people putting her up to it, I've heard enough primary children say "the church is true" and be pretty confident that they were put up to it as well, so again, another non-issue for me. She still wrote down the words and had the lady stones to say them, so hats off to her. Other than saying she hopes to marry another woman one day, how is what she said different than what can be found on mormonandgay.org? A pretty tame testimony to be shut off, so I don't know what all the fuss is about. Good for her, and I'm glad she got support afterwards.

This is true. Crazy stuff does come out and I'm sure what she had to say surprised very few. On another note, we had a thread that had crazy testimonies on NOM 1.0. That would be fun. I just haven't heard anything crazy, lately.

[wtfluff]

Here is young Savanah interviewed in a podcast. Apparently, Savanah had been working on her testimony for several months, ever since she got the idea of bearing it in Church.

http://iliketolookforrainbows.com/2017/ ... ahs-story/

Back during WWII, the Church publically denounced young LDS Helmet Hübener for his protests against Nazism. They might cast stones at young Savanah at the apologetic Mormon D&D board, but I think at some point they will have an acceptance of Savanah much like they did later on with Helmet Hübener.

Yep. Savanah's "testimony" is actually old news to folks who were paying attention. Her original, more than two-week old podcast with her mother also present was linked on reddit, yet now that Brother Noah has posted the video of the event (on reddit,) it's gone viral.

Kinda funny how this DAMU thing works...

[Hagoth]

Here's what I have learned from this. You are not really allowed to own your testimony, you are only permitted to borrow an instance of the official approved testimony. When you stand up to bear a testimony, only a repetition of some version of the CHURCH's testimony is permissible. If you parrot it correctly the Central Scrutinizer will pleased and no groupthink feathers will be ruffled, but if go off the rails a little bit and actually bear YOUR own unique testimony, one that isn't on loan from the institution's patent office, you shouldn't be too surprised to discover that you are no longer among friends.

[moksha]

Savanah's "testimony" is actually old news to folks who were paying attention. Her original, more than two-week old podcast with her mother also present was linked on reddit, yet now that Brother Noah has posted the video of the event (on reddit,) it's gone viral.

Significant stories sometimes take a while to circulate. Cinepro on another forum asked the question of whether Savanah has been excommunicated yet. My guess is that this has been discussed in her local stake council.

The story in the Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mor ... 5cd5b9e561

[Give It Time]

I have a feeling all references to rainbows will be removed from church materials.

[MoPag]

But certain things are guaranteed to increase the lifecycle of outrage. Video evidence, cute kids speaking sincerely from their heart and grown men being dicks in response to that sincerity, certainly fit that bill. And sometimes having you preconceptions confirmed merits a little media coverage and banging your fist on the press table.

Yep^^

Also, what if it had gone the other way? What if she had finished her testimony? What if her Bishop had gotten up and hugged her when she was done and then preached a message of love and acceptance to the ward? And what if that had gone viral? I'm really sad it didn't go that way.