Wove has bwought us togever today

[No Tof]

So I have been listening to us all talk about how we stay because our love for our spouse is stronger then our dislike for the church or at least the underlying problems we see in it.

Most of the time I feel that is a true motivation in my situation too, but once in a while I have a period of sober introspection and wonder if this is reality.

I find myself ponderizing whether we are being true to our spouse and ourselves in a situation where we are in a big way living a very separate existence from them (DW or DH) We may try to empathize with them about their convictions and even be supportive to their spiritual cause, but on some level there is resentment that we are not working towards coming to common ground and moving forward from there. I admit that although I say to myself and DW, I am ok with our mixed faith situation, in a certain part of my brain, I wish it was different. I am confident she feels similarly.

My question to put out to you then is, how do we really have an intimate loving relationship with our best friend and at the same time be so different in our basic world view? This is especially challenging when we understand the still believing spouse, is fearful of the eternal future, and hanging in there in case we come back.

I am a very sound sleeper, but once in a while my nights are bothered by this kind of dilemma.

Thoughts?

[alas]

It helps to focus on the things you do have in common. Sure, she/he hopes you will repent and come back to believing, and sure, in part of your brain you keep thinking, "how can you believe that stuff?" But what do you have in common? Do you agree on teaching your children to be kind? Honest? Hard working? Do you and your spouse enjoy the same recreation? Even when you had the same religion, there were things about this person that you preferred over all the other Mormons. Do you agree on things like politics? That can be as much of a world view as religion. Do you like the same movies, TV, music? Do you have the same life goals outside of any religious, next life kind of goals? Do you both dream of traveling? retiring to Florida? Do you agree on financial goals? Do you enjoy their company? Do you have fun together? Do you enjoy the same friends.

If you cannot bring religious thoughts together, work on the things you can. Have date nights. Find a new hobby you both enjoy. Discuss dreams, hopes. Have more fun together. When you were dating and fell in love, you were not just going to church and raising children. Remember some of the fun things you used to do before children and do them more often. Accept that they may never change their mind on religion, I mean really accept that. You married them as a Mormon, and just because you changed your mind doesn't mean that they have to. Look for the good the church brings into their life.

[Anon70]

Humperdinck!

I have wondered about this myself. My DH truly believes I have my agency and doesn't seem to worry about it. BUT I pretend and attend for him. I wonder how it will be once I stop.....

[wtfluff]

My question to put out to you then is, how do we really have an intimate loving relationship with our best friend and at the same time be so different in our basic world view? This is especially challenging when we understand the still believing spouse, is fearful of the eternal future, and hanging in there in case we come back.

Thoughts?

My very first "shower thought" on this is: I WISH that we as humans could treat religion the way the vast majority of us treat hobbies. If my wife enjoys underwater basket weaving, it's pretty easy for her to enjoy it as much as she wants, but it's highly unlikely that she's going to think she has to convince me that underwater basket weaving is the only "true" hobby, and that I must love it as much as she does, and if I don't, she'll divorce me. The thought sounds quite silly doesn't it? You like underwater basket weaving, I like Slam Ball. No need to convince each other who is right or wrong about which hobby is more-better.

Alas, as far as I can tell, humans in general are completely incapable of treating religion as if it is a hobby. Seems to me religion is as much about convincing your neighbor that you are right and they are wrong, as it is about actually worshiping some sort of deity, or "doing good unto others". Especially those of us who get involved in (or are born into) a fundamentalist, high-demand religion such as mormonism.

So, as you can tell, I have no "thoughts" about how to work out a real, intimate and loving relationship with such different world-views. Personally, I'm a complete failure at any type of intimate relationship at all, religion just makes it infinitely worse...

[Mormorrisey]

An interesting post. I think the answers you're looking for will be different for everyone here. Sister M and I have NEVER been on the same page with many things, including religion, how to raise the kids, she's conservative and I'm liberal, etc. etc. So my disaffection is nothing new to how we deal with the challenges in our marriage, as we've constantly had to negotiate our worldviews on a number of different subjects for over two decades now. Sometimes we've been good at it, sometimes not. Is it on an upwards trajectory? That's the key question, and I think yes.

Would I love for her to see the church as I see it? Sure. But is it NECESSARY to my relationship with her? No. Unfortunately, given the nature of the church, it's not the same for her, and she constantly worries about the state of my soul, even though the last year or so has been better for her. I think the fact that I haven't changed a bit despite my challenges have confused her, as has my increased happiness level. So she's giving me more of a break now, but it was tough going for the first couple of years, as it became clear that my views of the church were not going to change. I think it just takes time, a lot of reinforcement of love, and moving on from the angry phase to the apathy phase from the disaffected spouse, which is where I'm at now. That has made a lot of difference; even though there's NEVER been talk of divorce, I don't think that's even been on the radar, the key is not to make worldviews a personal matter. I'm annoyed with the church, not with her. I don't like her politics, but I like her. I don't always agree with how we've raised the kids, but she's a great mother. Validation without agreement is possible! Constantly making my love for her clearly, despite my disagreement with some things is the key to our marriage, in my view.

[Linked]

So I have been listening to us all talk about how we stay because our love for our spouse is stronger then our dislike for the church or at least the underlying problems we see in it.

Most of the time I feel that is a true motivation in my situation too, but once in a while I have a period of sober introspection and wonder if this is reality.

I find myself ponderizing whether we are being true to our spouse and ourselves in a situation where we are in a big way living a very separate existence from them (DW or DH) We may try to empathize with them about their convictions and even be supportive to their spiritual cause, but on some level there is resentment that we are not working towards coming to common ground and moving forward from there. I admit that although I say to myself and DW, I am ok with our mixed faith situation, in a certain part of my brain, I wish it was different. I am confident she feels similarly.

My question to put out to you then is, how do we really have an intimate loving relationship with our best friend and at the same time be so different in our basic world view? This is especially challenging when we understand the still believing spouse, is fearful of the eternal future, and hanging in there in case we come back.

I am a very sound sleeper, but once in a while my nights are bothered by this kind of dilemma.

Thoughts?

My first thought when reading your post was that staying because we love and care about our spouse and resenting them and their worldview is not an either/or situation. We are complicated creatures seemingly built for conflicting and contradictory reasoning. Of course, I would prefer if I didn't have any resentment for those I love, but C'est la vie.

We can get closer to our spouses by focusing on what we have in common like Alas suggested. But unless our feelings about TBMs or our spouses feelings about apostates change we will have a resentment gulf. This gulf might be offset or overwhelmed with the things in common, or the gulf could dominate. We can try to shrink that gulf on our end by fostering a more positive view of TBMs (for me the best way to do that has been to remember the good times I've had with my very TBM family, and the good TBM people I know. When I really try to understand the TBMs I love, I see good people doing good things for good reasons, and I love them for it). I'm not sure how to shrink the gulf from the TBM end; maybe discuss the doctrines that help them worry less about it.

I think in the back of the minds of most people in a marriage between a disaffected mormon and a TBM is the thought that it might be better to split. There is a real possibility that the most happiness we can feel in this relationship is a local maximum, and there is a higher happiness global maximum out there where we live authentically and don't ever think about mormonism. But the energy needed to go from local max to global max is immense, involving divorce often with children, splitting assets, SAHM's going to work, finding new friends, possible exclusion from all our current friend and family groups, etc. And we don't really know if we will ever find something better, maybe living authentically isn't worth that much trouble?

[Corsair]

My very first "shower thought" on this is: I WISH that we as humans could treat religion the way the vast majority of us treat hobbies. If my wife enjoys underwater basket weaving, it's pretty easy for her to enjoy it as much as she wants, but it's highly unlikely that she's going to think she has to convince me that underwater basket weaving is the only "true" hobby, and that I must love it as much as she does, and if I don't, she'll divorce me. The thought sounds quite silly doesn't it? You like underwater basket weaving, I like Slam Ball. No need to convince each other who is right or wrong about which hobby is more-better.

This is a critical point. I have largely managed to treat the LDS church like a consuming hobby. My wife is not really happy about this, but I don't bother her about it nor do I worry about the time spent and tithing she pays from her own money. But I am pretty sure that I am an unusual case and largely an exception to the principle you outlined above. It still took me a long time to figure out how to act around other Mormons and not offend them with expressing my beliefs since it my beliefs would trample theirs.

[Red Ryder]

Most of us married to TBM's are NOM because we weren't afraid to think, while most of us are still married to TBM's and attending/because we're afraid to act.

Wove haz nuffing twoo do wif it.

[Linked]

Most of us married to TBM's are NOM because we weren't afraid to think, while most of us are still married to TBM's and attending/because we're afraid to act.

Wove haz nuffing twoo do wif it.

Cutting right to the heart of it.

[Anon70]

Most of us married to TBM's are NOM because we weren't afraid to think, while most of us are still married to TBM's and attending/because we're afraid to act.

Wove haz nuffing twoo do wif it.

this was like a truth slap to the head for me today. Maybe, to be a little more specific, afraid of the consequences if I act.