Reality check

[Corsair]

Maybe start with little things like this: http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref ... s.html.csp

Peggy Fletcher Stack wrote this article titled "OK, Mormons, drink up — Coke and Pepsi are OK" during the Presidential campaign of 2012 when one of the scandals of Mitt Romney was being caught drinking Diet Coke. I pointed out this article to some old-school, orthodox LDS friends of mine and their response was that some newspaper is not a source of doctrine for them. There will be no Coke or Pepsi in their house as specified in the Book of St. McConkie.

I have a lot of sympathy for TestimonyLost. His situation is similar enough to mine. I took the unfair, duplicitous, and risky tactic of setting my new moral standards without asking my wife how she felt about it. She is still not going to join me with watching "Game of Thrones", gaming on the Sabbath, or non-payment of tithes. I keep any Word of Wisdom violations far away from home. But I still am faithful to marriage commitments to her alone as well as act in complete financial and emotional support for my family. It's enlightening to determine what you really want to change in your life as you undergo a big change in your faith.

Others have recommended counseling and I have to agree with them. Your current state of marriage is making you miserable and I doubt your wife is experiencing wedded bliss either. There is no doubt that divorce sucks, but it should not be feared either. Accepting it as a reasonable option might still put you in the frame of mind to deal openly with your wife going forward.

Is she willing to be married to you as a supportive husband but not as an orthodox priesthood hold? Are you willing to support her as a faithful Mormon in a mixed faith marriage? Would a mixed faith marriage be happier than the situation you are currently experiencing? If you can both answer "Yes" to these questions then you can move forward to a better relationship. If not, planning for an amicable, and successful divorce will probably make you both happier.

[alas]

I haven't read all the other comments, but I have a thought that I wanted to express that your wife's issue may have less to do with Mormonism and more to do with taste/culture/lifestyle/health. The fact that she is willing to compromise on tithing but not TV shows is telling, and there just might be reasons behind it other than religion.

First, the entertainment may be the idea that too much violence is just not good. Psychologists have studied the effects of violent TV/games/movies, and although they do not seem to cause the person to become more violent, there is an effect on health. Viewed violence makes the body release the stress hormones, and we all know that too much stress is harmful to your health.

I am not sure how to define the second concept, but let's call it quality of entertainment. Apostate me hates the "mature" TV shows, video games, R-rated movies, violent movies. Rather than being "mature" they strike me as appealing to teenagers who are trying to prove how grown up they are. Grown ups do not need sex and bathroom jokes as entertainment, nor are they entertained by gore just for the sake of gory violence. 90% of such shows, TV, games strike me as really quite juvenile, just not as high quality as the kid shows. So, at our house we buy kid stuff, and the really high quality grown up stuff. No Robo Cop, please. It has nothing to do with Mormon standards, and everything to do with quality standards. We all know that some R-rated movies are Good movies. So, I wait till the awards come out and that helps me avoid a lot of trash.

The avoidance of caffeine can be more about health and less about religion. (Just for your information, I drink coffee, but coffee isn't good for everyone, which is why your doctor asks you about such things.) But I would never give caffeinated soda to my grandkids, because (a) too much sugar is bad and they get addicted to the caffein and then consume too much sugar along with their caffein fix. (b) why get them addicted to something they do not need. (c) I saw a sudden change in my kids dental health when they started working at the local amusement park and switched from the boring water and stuff I had been giving them to caffeinated drinks (because people brush after meals but not after a drink and the sugar rots their teeth.) My husband's doctor just ordered him to lay OFF the caffein soda, even though he drinks diet. But the caffein in Dr. Pepper is too much for him. So, there are health reasons to avoid caffein addiction. There are also things caffein helps with, such as ADD, ADHD, and even autism spectrum. But, if you are not ne of the people it helps, then why get addicted. (My TBM DH makes sure I get my coffee every morning because he can't stand me when my ADD is running amuck.)

[Linked]

I haven't read all the other comments, but I have a thought that I wanted to express that your wife's issue may have less to do with Mormonism and more to do with taste/culture/lifestyle/health. The fact that she is willing to compromise on tithing but not TV shows is telling, and there just might be reasons behind it other than religion.

First, the entertainment may be the idea that too much violence is just not good. Psychologists have studied the effects of violent TV/games/movies, and although they do not seem to cause the person to become more violent, there is an effect on health. Viewed violence makes the body release the stress hormones, and we all know that too much stress is harmful to your health.

I am not sure how to define the second concept, but let's call it quality of entertainment. Apostate me hates the "mature" TV shows, video games, R-rated movies, violent movies. Rather than being "mature" they strike me as appealing to teenagers who are trying to prove how grown up they are. Grown ups do not need sex and bathroom jokes as entertainment, nor are they entertained by gore just for the sake of gory violence. 90% of such shows, TV, games strike me as really quite juvenile, just not as high quality as the kid shows. So, at our house we buy kid stuff, and the really high quality grown up stuff. No Robo Cop, please. It has nothing to do with Mormon standards, and everything to do with quality standards. We all know that some R-rated movies are Good movies. So, I wait till the awards come out and that helps me avoid a lot of trash.

The avoidance of caffeine can be more about health and less about religion. (Just for your information, I drink coffee, but coffee isn't good for everyone, which is why your doctor asks you about such things.) But I would never give caffeinated soda to my grandkids, because (a) too much sugar is bad and they get addicted to the caffein and then consume too much sugar along with their caffein fix. (b) why get them addicted to something they do not need. (c) I saw a sudden change in my kids dental health when they started working at the local amusement park and switched from the boring water and stuff I had been giving them to caffeinated drinks (because people brush after meals but not after a drink and the sugar rots their teeth.) My husband's doctor just ordered him to lay OFF the caffein soda, even though he drinks diet. But the caffein in Dr. Pepper is too much for him. So, there are health reasons to avoid caffein addiction. There are also things caffein helps with, such as ADD, ADHD, and even autism spectrum. But, if you are not ne of the people it helps, then why get addicted. (My TBM DH makes sure I get my coffee every morning because he can't stand me when my ADD is running amuck.)

Alas, bringing us back on track.

Those are really good points. Maybe OP's DW just doesn't like juvenile humor or the things she expects will be portrayed. Perhaps OP could have a discussion with DW that gets into the complexities of what she doesn't want OP and family exposed to. Then if there is an R rated movie that doesn't have sex and violence, like "The King's Speech", and you are interested you could go.

Of course, if this is the case and OP does like juvenile humor then that could be a compatibility issue. And who is DW to tell him what his opinions are? I think this is a pretty common compatibility issue though.

(I love juvenile humor, and my DW hates it. We get by with me watching my shows with headphones.)

[alas]

I haven't read all the other comments, but I have a thought that I wanted to express that your wife's issue may have less to do with Mormonism and more to do with taste/culture/lifestyle/health. The fact that she is willing to compromise on tithing but not TV shows is telling, and there just might be reasons behind it other than religion.

First, the entertainment may be the idea that too much violence is just not good. Psychologists have studied the effects of violent TV/games/movies, and although they do not seem to cause the person to become more violent, there is an effect on health. Viewed violence makes the body release the stress hormones, and we all know that too much stress is harmful to your health.

I am not sure how to define the second concept, but let's call it quality of entertainment. Apostate me hates the "mature" TV shows, video games, R-rated movies, violent movies. Rather than being "mature" they strike me as appealing to teenagers who are trying to prove how grown up they are. Grown ups do not need sex and bathroom jokes as entertainment, nor are they entertained by gore just for the sake of gory violence. 90% of such shows, TV, games strike me as really quite juvenile, just not as high quality as the kid shows. So, at our house we buy kid stuff, and the really high quality grown up stuff. No Robo Cop, please. It has nothing to do with Mormon standards, and everything to do with quality standards. We all know that some R-rated movies are Good movies. So, I wait till the awards come out and that helps me avoid a lot of trash.

The avoidance of caffeine can be more about health and less about religion. (Just for your information, I drink coffee, but coffee isn't good for everyone, which is why your doctor asks you about such things.) But I would never give caffeinated soda to my grandkids, because (a) too much sugar is bad and they get addicted to the caffein and then consume too much sugar along with their caffein fix. (b) why get them addicted to something they do not need. (c) I saw a sudden change in my kids dental health when they started working at the local amusement park and switched from the boring water and stuff I had been giving them to caffeinated drinks (because people brush after meals but not after a drink and the sugar rots their teeth.) My husband's doctor just ordered him to lay OFF the caffein soda, even though he drinks diet. But the caffein in Dr. Pepper is too much for him. So, there are health reasons to avoid caffein addiction. There are also things caffein helps with, such as ADD, ADHD, and even autism spectrum. But, if you are not ne of the people it helps, then why get addicted. (My TBM DH makes sure I get my coffee every morning because he can't stand me when my ADD is running amuck.)

Alas, bringing us back on track.

Those are really good points. Maybe OP's DW just doesn't like juvenile humor or the things she expects will be portrayed. Perhaps OP could have a discussion with DW that gets into the complexities of what she doesn't want OP and family exposed to. Then if there is an R rated movie that doesn't have sex and violence, like "The King's Speech", and you are interested you could go.

Of course, if this is the case and OP does like juvenile humor then that could be a compatibility issue. And who is DW to tell him what his opinions are? I think this is a pretty common compatibility issue though.

(I love juvenile humor, and my DW hates it. We get by with me watching my shows with headphones.)

I came back because I had left out the idea that maybe you should talk with her and find out what her objections really are, but linked beat me to it.

And if the movie thing is a matter of taste, and not religion, then you will have to find a way to compromise. My husband likes more juvenile movies than I do, so once in a while I will see one with him, but mostly he used to watch them on airplanes when he traveled for work. But when there were small children in the home, he wasn't even allowed to bring one home, because the oldest loved to sneak. It didn't matter what it was, if she was told to leave it alone, it was first on her list to do. Such a fun child. Now, he just watches them on TV and I leave the room to protect my brain cells from stupidity.

[Give It Time]

I haven't read all the other comments, but I have a thought that I wanted to express that your wife's issue may have less to do with Mormonism and more to do with taste/culture/lifestyle/health. The fact that she is willing to compromise on tithing but not TV shows is telling, and there just might be reasons behind it other than religion.

First, the entertainment may be the idea that too much violence is just not good. Psychologists have studied the effects of violent TV/games/movies, and although they do not seem to cause the person to become more violent, there is an effect on health. Viewed violence makes the body release the stress hormones, and we all know that too much stress is harmful to your health.

I am not sure how to define the second concept, but let's call it quality of entertainment. Apostate me hates the "mature" TV shows, video games, R-rated movies, violent movies. Rather than being "mature" they strike me as appealing to teenagers who are trying to prove how grown up they are. Grown ups do not need sex and bathroom jokes as entertainment, nor are they entertained by gore just for the sake of gory violence. 90% of such shows, TV, games strike me as really quite juvenile, just not as high quality as the kid shows. So, at our house we buy kid stuff, and the really high quality grown up stuff. No Robo Cop, please. It has nothing to do with Mormon standards, and everything to do with quality standards. We all know that some R-rated movies are Good movies. So, I wait till the awards come out and that helps me avoid a lot of trash.

The avoidance of caffeine can be more about health and less about religion. (Just for your information, I drink coffee, but coffee isn't good for everyone, which is why your doctor asks you about such things.) But I would never give caffeinated soda to my grandkids, because (a) too much sugar is bad and they get addicted to the caffein and then consume too much sugar along with their caffein fix. (b) why get them addicted to something they do not need. (c) I saw a sudden change in my kids dental health when they started working at the local amusement park and switched from the boring water and stuff I had been giving them to caffeinated drinks (because people brush after meals but not after a drink and the sugar rots their teeth.) My husband's doctor just ordered him to lay OFF the caffein soda, even though he drinks diet. But the caffein in Dr. Pepper is too much for him. So, there are health reasons to avoid caffein addiction. There are also things caffein helps with, such as ADD, ADHD, and even autism spectrum. But, if you are not ne of the people it helps, then why get addicted. (My TBM DH makes sure I get my coffee every morning because he can't stand me when my ADD is running amuck.)

I'm glad alas wrote this, too. I was wondering what the being okay with skipped tithing, but not okay with the other was about. If alas hasn't hit the nail on the head, this does point out very well the need for more conversation.

[alas]

OK, now I have read through everybody's comments. One thing that struck me that you said was about feeling like a teenager wanting to yell that she can't tell you what to do. Because, REALLY, those things are pretty small things and it should be easy for you to keep living those standards if that is what will make her happy. But, it is that she is dictating how you should live your life and it is just too controlling for you. How controlling is she with other things? If this is the only thing she has ever been controlling about, well, I can still imagine reacting to it with resentment, because it is still controlling. But if she is normally not controlling, or threatening divorce over little stuff, then you really need to find out why before going nuclear on her. Because really Coke is not worth getting divorced over.

My other thought after reading everyone's comments is that she may have drawn a line in the sand out of fear that you will go off the deep end and become a drug dealing pimp. So, she has drawn a line to keep you from becoming a drunk wino sleeping in the gutter and she has drawn the line WAY WAY back from the cliff. Mormons are raised with the idea of the slipper slope and think that one drink of Diet Coke will lead to a life or crime, so they are taught to stay far away from these evils. Which of course is pretty stupid. Diet Coke is not a gateway drug. You can control yourself. But she may need assurances that you will control yourself and just exactly how far you will go.

Anyway, you know your wife and her personality and what we all are writing is just guesses from other situations we have heard about or experienced. But your wife is different than the people we have had experiences with, so you are in the best situation to know what is most likely going on with her. But I think, now you have some ideas, maybe you should talk to her to find out why these things are so important, because really, they are pretty small potatoes.

[didyoumythme]

My 2 cents - One option is to wait it out a bit and see how she feels. She is probably feeling defensive about the situation and is afraid caffeine and video games will corrupt your soul. Don't commit to this forever if you can't handle it (understandably), but consider saying something like, "I will commit to this for now, but I can't commit to this forever because I don't believe they are inherently wrong like you do." I don't know her, but I would expect her to soften up on these items over time since they are so trivial. I think she mostly needs time.

These items represent something greater to her. It is hard to get in her head since most of these items are so meaningless, but over time she may see that your unbelief isn't corrupting your soul, so maybe some cola and a FPS game won't either.

[RubinHighlander]

Not sure I have much to add, as there has been much said here. But I can share a few things from my own experience in being the first one out to NOMdom, with DW having to go through the pain and cogdis of still being TBM and seeing me change.

The small things your DW laid down appear to be desperation to control some things, since she cannot control your evolving disaffection to the COB. At least she's negotiating. When I first started disclosing my cogdis to DW she was obviously upset. I'd also disclosed that I'd had a beer once in a while with coworkers at lunch. I had a few stashed in the garage as well and would indulge on occasion when out on my outdoor excursions. After a while, once she saw that I was still a good husband, willing to go to church with her and at least pretend to be a good TBM, she basically told me she just didn't want to know about those other things.

So there's a couple of options you might consider. Tell her that you are willing to try her way for a while and see how it goes, then just play the game for a time. Once she mellows out and the cogdis subsides for her, things might loosen up. That would leave the door open a bit so it's not a permanent ultimatum. You can also take the approach with her that you take with the church on some things. Let's say you wanted to go to the temple to see your kid married, but you are a non-believer; you would make the questions work, maybe pay a little tithing and do what it takes to get there. The church was dishonest with you and is a corrupt institution, so working the system to get what you need socially is acceptable and means nothing. It's a don't ask don't tell situation. So if you want a coffee or beer once in a while, you are only accountable to yourself, as long as it does not negatively impact your wife and kids.

Without the angle and devil off my shoulder I was liberated and guilt free. There was no need to submit myself as a child to the COB. And, as long as there was an increase in love, affection and dedication to my DW.

[Give It Time]

It's no longer early, I've worked. I've taken a little nap. I meant the person who conducted the study when I said, "the guy".

The abuse cycle is common in most DV relationships. My ex did not utilize the abuse cycle. He hated that his mom would leave his mom. His father would hunt her down where she was hiding with him and his siblings. He'd cry and make all sorts of promises. She'd go back. Things would be better for awhile. Then, they'd start again.

Oddly, I'm grateful and always was my ex never did this. We both knew it would be a sham. So, he was a jerk, really, most of the time. No true honeymoon phase. Ever.

We were unusual. I know.

It seems truly bizarre to be writing about this on such plain terms, after the fact, that we both knew what he was doing. I guess I thought he could change.

Sorry for the thread jack.

Back to the subject at hand. I think your wife is terrified. She loves you and didn't sign up for this. At the same time, your an adult and should be able to determine how to run your life, within reason (and I don't think what you want is unreasonable). Fear, though, is seldom rational.

You've gotten some great input, here. I'm still siding mostly with hammering this out in marital counseling. Until then, may suggest, wrapping your arms around her and just holding her. Let her know she's safe with you?

[Culper Jr.]

Not only is she afraid for your salvation, but thanks to the loads and loads of bullsh*t she was taught in YW and RS, she thinks she is responsible for your salvation as well. I bet she really thinks that doubling down and trying to control you like this will eventually lead you back to the spirit and activity. A Mormon woman's identity and self worth are completely wrapped up in her husband's priesthood/devotion to the church. In short, your faith crisis has caused her to have an identity crisis. And the crazy demands she is making are really just her searching for some type of control.

Wow, I think you just summed up my wife's issues with my disaffection in like five sentences. Thanks MoPag, that gives me a lot of insight.

[TestimonyLost]

Thank you to everyone for taking the time to respond. Your insights and advice are appreciated. I'm far from sure what to do but, as always, you've given me a lot to think over.

[Thoughtful]

Thank you to everyone for taking the time to respond. Your insights and advice are appreciated. I'm far from sure what to do but, as always, you've given me a lot to think over.

Good luck!!

[MoPag]

Not only is she afraid for your salvation, but thanks to the loads and loads of bullsh*t she was taught in YW and RS, she thinks she is responsible for your salvation as well. I bet she really thinks that doubling down and trying to control you like this will eventually lead you back to the spirit and activity. A Mormon woman's identity and self worth are completely wrapped up in her husband's priesthood/devotion to the church. In short, your faith crisis has caused her to have an identity crisis. And the crazy demands she is making are really just her searching for some type of control.

Wow, I think you just summed up my wife's issues with my disaffection in like five sentences. Thanks MoPag, that gives me a lot of insight.

Happy to help my friend.

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