What do you want?

[Emower]

I've been having a pretty hard time lately. I feel like what I want is extremely simple to give. But it isn't coming and may never come.

All I really want is understanding from my spouse. I can deal with everyone else thinking I am crazy, but not her. I would just like her to understand what the issues are when I mention the first vision, book of Abraham, polygamy etc...
If she still wants to believe, that's fine. I would just like her to know know, academically, what my problems are. But I don't know that that will ever happen. She says she wants to build her relationship with God before she goes into any issues. My rock in my hat translated that to say, "I want to reinforce my conditioning so that there is no chance that I will be affected when I read about disturbing stuff."

What do you guys want? A clean break? Less dogma? No family reunions? I'm just curious.

[Charlotte]

I used to want my husband to agree with me, but now I really just want him to talk with me. I'd like to discuss the church and religion in general. I'd like him to be willing to read and discuss the essays, truth claims, biblical scholarship, and a smidge of women's issues. I'd like it if he didn't privilege loyalty to the church over faith in God/honest searching for the transcendent.

But he's a good, good person. I try to find common ground. It's forced me to read in the areas he has interest, and sometimes I find connections to my stuff and we can talk spontaneously. My comments are seen and accepted as more sincere because they probably are. They weren't something I had canned and ready to roll at the first opening.

[Culper Jr.]

I want DW to stop being in denial about my disaffection with the church. It's like the movie Groundhog Day every time we discuss the issues. Recently she asked me what she should say to someone to share the gospel with them. Seriously? After all I've told with her about how I think most of the doctrine of the church is BS, and that I utterly resent the leadership of the church from my HPGL to the "prophet" of the Corporation! My answer, "Run fast, run far." It did not go over well.

[LostGirl]

I want to be able to discuss the issues without becoming a pariah.

[SeeNoEvil]

I wanted validation. Some sort of sign that some one agreed with me. My DH and I agreed on just about everything from furniture to what what movie to go see. We even agreed politically. He hated church, would skip out during SS and go get a burger and coke. Complained about paying tithing and we rarely went to the temple, complained non stop about the garments, etc.... But when I brought up my doubts and what I found he turned overnight into a full armor shield toting defender of Mormonism. He ran to the bishop in a panic. All I wanted was someone to hear me out, where I felt safe to bounce my thoughts off and have a real adult discussion about what I had found out about the church. I thought this would be something we could explore together. Instead I was met with that deer in the headlight look, then the panic set in and he bolted. What I learned is people really don't want to hear the truth. They want only what makes them feel good and if they don't get those warm fuzzies then it can't be truth.

[LostGirl]

What I learned is people really don't want to hear the truth. They want only what makes them feel good and if they don't get those warm fuzzies then it can't be truth.

I feel like I learn this every single time I let even the slightest hint slip. They don't want to know things that make them uncomfortable. I get it and don't get it at the same time.

[Red Ryder]

Validation and understanding would be nice but unfortunately those are unrealistic within Mormon connected relationships. How can any Mormon validate and understand losing a testimony when they've been mislead and conditioned to label us as apostate or deceived by Satan? How many of us were the same way until we were triggered?

Validation and understanding all an only be provided by others who have gone through the same journey. Why do you think we all have an instant connection within 10 minutes of meeting for the first time?

I gave up long ago hoping to be understood. Now I just like to be the enigma nobody can figure out. I've accepted this and fully embrace it and often respond by saying, "one day you will understand me". Those who wish to continue the conversation will ask what I mean and then I gently point them in the direction of the essays or other good books. Read this or look through that and get back to me. They never do.

Life is too short to worry about Joseph Smith, the restoration narrative, and expired milk in the refrigerator. I toss out all three with little concern and don't worry about it. There's more important things to do with my life.

Now I just want Sundays off to spend doing things with friends and family or binge watch my favorite shows. The wife ditching garments would be nice too but I'm not holding out hope unless we permanently go on vacation or join a nudist colony.

[MalcolmVillager]

Emower you are not alone in your desires or you loneliness. My wife was very resistant at first as well. She still doesnt want to hear about theology or doctrine. The social issues seem to be what speaks to her. She has gone on angry rants to me after reading D&C 132 and the manifestos as well as after the blog from the wife of a open addict letter to the bishop. She cannot accept polygamy or the sexual control from the church.

I dont know if she will ever join me in my "apostasy" but she gives me space. I am not running too far too fast. She isnt judgemental of me and has told me that whether I am in or out of the church, she loves me and will stand by me.

That is very comforting, but at the same time we just saw a divorce of friends where he left thw church and she insisted on staying in dogma. It easy to say you will stand by someone during a trial that you are not currently experiencing.

My DW read Patrick Masons "Planted" and although she doesnt understand the depth of these issues, she respects my right to explore them and does not think I am being tricked by Satan.

Good luck. Be patient.

[Not Buying It]

I just want out and my wife and kids out with me.

Unfortunately, I want what I can never, ever have.

[Korihor]

Emower, I feel ya. I know the feeling, like an unending march of monotony. While most of us have experienced this march to one degree or another, it's a trudging march.

My best advice is to try to keep your chin up, but if you're having a bad day, they just have a bad day. It's OK.

Try to find ways to talk with your wife. No one ever agreed with someone else by using brute force logic. You will need to introduce your vulnerability and emotional ties to the matter to get her to open up and relate.

That's the best I got. Keep on trucking, I'm always here for ya.

[Mormorrisey]

On the whole, I don't even know anymore what I want. And that seems to be part of the problem that's addressed in this thread. But I'll try to break it down from what I want and who I want it from.

1) My family - like RR, I wanted validation for my views for many years, and now all I care about is love. At this point, we all just seem to love one another, despite all the foibles of an imperfect family, so I'll just take some of that. That's all I want. Glad to get it for the most part.

2) From the church - nothing. Absolutely nothing. Since I'm fairly committed to not giving a whole lot to that organization anymore, why should I demand anything from them? Again, like RR, I'm quite content to be the ward pariah-riddle-wrapped up-in-an-enigma. It fits where I want my participation to be, where I want their prying to be. Just leave me alone, and we'll all get along just fine.

3) From life - just contentment. And largely, that's how I feel. Just generally content these days, despite occasional outrage at the stupidity both in church and in the world at large. At least the blinding rage confirms I'm still alive and not completely apathetic.

4) From NOM - just a bunch of great conversations from people who get it. Love this place.

[MerrieMiss]

On the whole, I don't even know anymore what I want. And that seems to be part of the problem that's addressed in this thread. But I'll try to break it down from what I want and who I want it from.

1) My family - like RR, I wanted validation for my views for many years, and now all I care about is love. At this point, we all just seem to love one another, despite all the foibles of an imperfect family, so I'll just take some of that. That's all I want. Glad to get it for the most part.

2) From the church - nothing. Absolutely nothing. Since I'm fairly committed to not giving a whole lot to that organization anymore, why should I demand anything from them? Again, like RR, I'm quite content to be the ward pariah-riddle-wrapped up-in-an-enigma. It fits where I want my participation to be, where I want their prying to be. Just leave me alone, and we'll all get along just fine.

3) From life - just contentment. And largely, that's how I feel. Just generally content these days, despite occasional outrage at the stupidity both in church and in the world at large. At least the blinding rage confirms I'm still alive and not completely apathetic.

4) From NOM - just a bunch of great conversations from people who get it. Love this place.

This is gold. As so many others have said, at first I wanted agreement. I've wanted someone to listen, I currently want validation, but it becomes more clear to me that I probably won't get it, and I need to elsewhere for that, so here I am.

On a recent Mormon Transitions podcast Natasha Helfer Parker talked about the four things we need and can be fulfilled in our relationships/connections with others (spiritual, physical, mental, emotional, if I remember correctly) and how much we get varies in degrees. We can't get everything from one person so we have relationships of various kinds to fulfill those needs in our lives. Sometimes I wonder if I have fallen for the modern love myth that my partner should be everything for me. He can't be everything I need for me and I can't be everything for him. Hopefully we fulfill a lot of those functions, but we can't fulfill them all.

I think the most depressing part of this is that there is an empty place in your heart, your mind, your soul that can't be filled by the one person you wish most to fill it.

[MerrieMiss]

And no to family reunions. I've been spending so much time with my in-laws recently it's driving me crazy. Every family event is a church event. And no, I don't mean baptisms or baby blessings. I mean birthday parties, family member traveling through town, let's all have dinner, housewarming parties - why does everything have to revolve around church?

[Red Ryder]

And no to family reunions. I've been spending so much time with my in-laws recently it's driving me crazy. Every family event is a church event. And no, I don't mean baptisms or baby blessings. I mean birthday parties, family member traveling through town, let's all have dinner, housewarming parties - why does everything have to revolve around church?

Church is life. Life is church.

I once had an acquaintance that was talking about this girl he dated. He mentioned how strange it was to get invited over for dinner and stand around the piano singing songs with the whole family before having "bible" lessons then playing board games. I asked him if by chance that only happened on Monday nights and he looked at me confused and says, how did you know that?

[redjay]

Wants
1. Wine - occasional
2. A joint - infrequently
3. Mrs RJ's tithing as a holiday fund
4. The unconditional acceptance by my immediate family

1 and 4 likely, 3 less likely, 2 unikely

Don't Wants

1. Silly big undies
2. To spiritually hurt my parents
3. Children who are confused or hurt by the church's teachings
4. To go to church every week
5. To hear about the devil, the one true church, or counterfeit marriage
6. People at church to consider me wicked or misguided

1 and 4 likely in time, 2 &3 ??? 5 and 6 unlikely

[Emower]

Wants
1. Wine - occasional
2. A joint - infrequently
3. Mrs RJ's tithing as a holiday fund
4. The unconditional acceptance by my immediate family

1 and 4 likely, 3 less likely, 2 unikely

Don't Wants

1. Silly big undies
2. To spiritually hurt my parents
3. Children who are confused or hurt by the church's teachings
4. To go to church every week
5. To hear about the devil, the one true church, or counterfeit marriage
6. People at church to consider me wicked or misguided

1 and 4 likely in time, 2 &3 ??? 5 and 6 unlikely

I am pretty curious about smoking a joint. Someday maybe.

[Emower]

I think the most depressing part of this is that there is an empty place in your heart, your mind, your soul that can't be filled by the one person you wish most to fill it.

This is what I grieve over the most. But, how I feel is probably not unique to couples with religious differences. Part of what I feel may be because the kids are at a difficult stage, and life in general is hard. Mormonism doesn't cause that. It does make it worse though.

[Emower]

Thanks for the replies everybody. Live and let live seems to be the general feeling. It shouldn't be too hard to ask for. War seems to be a constant human struggle, whether it is on a small scale with individuals or groups all the way up to a global scale with whole countries involved.