The church really misses the mark on this one

[SeeNoEvil]

I've been off the grid here for the past week off to a family wedding. I hadn't seen some of my family, including children in years and stressed for weeks over their reaction to my leaving the church or do they know... they know I don't attend anymore. Would they hold a intervention? Call me out on it? They most definitely would notice I had no garments on under my dress with sheer sleeves, or that I drank coffee with breakfast. My family as most Mormon families can go are a bit judgmental but this time it didn't happen, no one said a thing. Big sigh of relief!!

What was noticed was the wedding wasn't in a Mormon temple which family tradition calls for but instead at a forest edge overlooking a beautiful valley below. The view took your breathe away. The bride wasn't Mormon and the groom who I was there for is inactive. She wore a stunning off the shoulder dress and her attendants and flower girls did as well. The ceremony was beautiful, given by a minister and they wrote their own vows. Family and friends flew in from everywhere just for that event because they love them and wanted to show their support. We celebrated well into the night with much drinking, dancing and loud laughter. It was probably one of the funnest wedding I have ever attended. I could not ignore my thoughts of the dozens of Mormon weddings and cultural hall receptions I attended and planned for my children over the years. For a church that is all about family the Mormons are really missing the mark on this one. The mountain there gave more peace and love than any temple I have been in.

I kept thinking of all the families and friends that are excluded from temple weddings. It reminded me of the time I was in the Nauvoo temple at my step brother-in-laws wedding several years ago and thought I was so special and privileged to be worthy enough to be there for their sealing. But as we stepped outside the temple for pictures there was a huge crowd of friends and family that broke into cheers as the couple. People who had traveled far for them, forced to stand out in the Illinois cold with the wind coming off the Mississippi all because they were not "worthy". It was a shelf cracking moment which I'll never forget. I felt uncomfortable, embarrassed, angry, shocked.... you pick. I didn't understand how a church could do that to families.

[redjay]

I feel for the families in the states who are excluded. In the UK we have a civil ceremony which is followed by the temple sealing.

We had drinking and dancing at our wedding reception(it wasn't at the chapel!) and a good time was had by all.

We then made our way to the temple for our sealing (and my wife's endowment - she was NOT happy with that part).

I would be gutted if I wasn't allowed to attend my child's wedding.

I'm glad you didn't feel ostracised by your LDS family members

[SeeNoEvil]

I feel for the families in the states who are excluded. In the UK we have a civil ceremony which is followed by the temple sealing.

We had drinking and dancing at our wedding reception(it wasn't at the chapel!) and a good time was had by all.

We then made our way to the temple for our sealing (and my wife's endowment - she was NOT happy with that part).

I would be gutted if I wasn't allowed to attend my child's wedding.

I'm glad you didn't feel ostracised by your LDS family members

Well that definitely sounds like a better way to do it but I don't understand why you can do it over there are not here in the US. How long ago was this? Are they still allowing civil ceremonies first? Happy for you and your wife though that you were able to accomplish both without offending those who could not come to the temple. I'll face that one day. I still have 2 children who are active. Though they are still young if they keep on track with their forever family plan I am sure the day will come I will be standing outside the temple with the rest of the heathens and apostates.

[redjay]

Seenoevil

I was married 20 years ago. But it is still the same today - a temple sealing is NOT legally binding in the UK, so a civil ceremony is essential. Two of my kids are inactive, the two younger are active - though the older teenager says it's all a bit far fetched, and the youngest is still in primary. I have great hopes for them: none of which involve activity, which I think is a terribly sad statement.

[Linked]

I'm glad to hear that the family time went well for you! It sounds like it was a wonderful wedding!

After my change of beliefs the realization that temple weddings are really a bad thing was a shock to me. I had spent my whole life glorifying temple marriage, but when you take off the faith glasses it is really tragic.

[Give It Time]

There was a faith promoting rumor that the church was going to lift this restriction with the following provisos.

The wedding must take place in an LDS meeting house, but not the chapel.
The bishop must officiate.
The gown must be temple appropriate.
The bishop will deliver a message about the importance of eternal family and being sealed in the temple.

If they are faithful in these things, they may be sealed without the wait.

I'm not sure if they have to go before the reception, so I didn't put it on the list. In not sure if there's a time period by which they must be sealed.

On the plus side, family could attend.

On the negative side, consider a wedding in the cultural hall and the officiant is free to make veiled insults about the less active family members.

[MoPag]

That sounds like a beautiful wedding SNE. I'm glad you had a fun time. Non Mormon weddings can be so fun. I was a bridesmaid in my one of my never-mo friend's wedding. It was way more fun than the standard LDS wedding.

After my change of beliefs the realization that temple weddings are really a bad thing was a shock to me. I had spent my whole life glorifying temple marriage, but when you take off the faith glasses it is really tragic.

^^Same here. They really drill it into you that a temple wedding is the only way to go. It's so sad.

[Nonny]

GiT, that rumor isn't worth the paper it isn't written on. If people can't choose the way they marry, then what's the difference. It is still a method of control by the corporate church. I'm not holding my breath.

A few weeks ago I stood outside for a family wedding and hope to be able to again this fall.

[2bizE]

I've been off the grid here for the past week off to a family wedding. I hadn't seen some of my family, including children in years and stressed for weeks over their reaction to my leaving the church or do they know... they know I don't attend anymore. Would they hold a intervention? Call me out on it? They most definitely would notice I had no garments on under my dress with sheer sleeves, or that I drank coffee with breakfast. My family as most Mormon families can go are a bit judgmental but this time it didn't happen, no one said a thing. Big sigh of relief!!

What was noticed was the wedding wasn't in a Mormon temple which family tradition calls for but instead at a forest edge overlooking a beautiful valley below. The view took your breathe away. The bride wasn't Mormon and the groom who I was there for is inactive. She wore a stunning off the shoulder dress and her attendants and flower girls did as well. The ceremony was beautiful, given by a minister and they wrote their own vows. Family and friends flew in from everywhere just for that event because they love them and wanted to show their support. We celebrated well into the night with much drinking, dancing and loud laughter. It was probably one of the funnest wedding I have ever attended. I could not ignore my thoughts of the dozens of Mormon weddings and cultural hall receptions I attended and planned for my children over the years. For a church that is all about family the Mormons are really missing the mark on this one. The mountain there gave more peace and love than any temple I have been in.

I kept thinking of all the families and friends that are excluded from temple weddings. It reminded me of the time I was in the Nauvoo temple at my step brother-in-laws wedding several years ago and thought I was so special and privileged to be worthy enough to be there for their sealing. But as we stepped outside the temple for pictures there was a huge crowd of friends and family that broke into cheers as the couple. People who had traveled far for them, forced to stand out in the Illinois cold with the wind coming off the Mississippi all because they were not "worthy". It was a shelf cracking moment which I'll never forget. I felt uncomfortable, embarrassed, angry, shocked.... you pick. I didn't understand how a church could do that to families.

I am happy that your occasion went so well. Life is too short to stress much. I recently attended a temple wedding where the active spouse could not attend the wedding of the child. Mormonism is so exclusionary for families. Terrible.
If I had family that could not attend, I would ensure my bride and I had both received our endowments prior to the wedding, and then cancel the temple wedding and get married somewhere in public. You could plan the outdoors event from the beginning, but just not let others in on the plan to cancel the temple wedding. Then my wife and I could get married where all family could attend, and we could both still go to the temple. BYW, I thought from the proclamation that marriage between a man and a woman was ordained of god. I guess Mormons must worship a different god.

[SeeNoEvil]

Seenoevil

I was married 20 years ago. But it is still the same today - a temple sealing is NOT legally binding in the UK, so a civil ceremony is essential.

I didn't know this! Thanks for the info. I wish it was the same here but it looks like there might be hope!

GiveItTime wrote: There was a faith promoting rumor that the church was going to lift this restriction with the following provisos.

The wedding must take place in an LDS meeting house, but not the chapel.
The bishop must officiate.
The gown must be temple appropriate.
The bishop will deliver a message about the importance of eternal family and being sealed in the temple.

If they are faithful in these things, they may be sealed without the wait

I've heard this rumor tossed around several times. If I remember right I think it was actually tried years ago but I might be wrong. Anyone remember that?

Linked wrote: I'm glad to hear that the family time went well for you! It sounds like it was a wonderful wedding!

The WEDDING was lovely but there was drama just not the drama I was preparing for... but what's a wedding without family drama! It's a given Just glad everyone made it home save and sound.

[SeeNoEvil]

MogPag wrote: That sounds like a beautiful wedding SNE. I'm glad you had a fun time. Non Mormon weddings can be so fun. I was a bridesmaid in my one of my never-mo friend's wedding. It was way more fun than the standard LDS wedding.

Come to think of it I don't recall ever being at a Mormon wedding that was a ton of fun. The only other one that comes to mind as being a lot of fun was non temple as well.

After my change of beliefs the realization that temple weddings are really a bad thing was a shock to me. I had spent my whole life glorifying temple marriage, but when you take off the faith glasses it is really tragic.

Mogpag wrote: They really drill it into you that a temple wedding is the only way to go. It's so sad.

I went to a wedding several years ago where at the last minute they found out the bride was pregnant and they had the wedding at the church. The mother of the bride told everyone as people came through the line to not worry that in one year they would get married in the temple.
Can you imagine how that bride must have felt? This was distant family and I know this young woman is still in the church. The indoctrination goes deep.

Nonny wrote: A few weeks ago I stood outside for a family wedding and hope to be able to again this fall.

You have the right attitude! This is how I plan to be when my turn comes to stand outside. Maybe we'll all hang out at the pub across the street while we wait! Curious, what the conversation was like among those who were out there with you. Was the exclusion policy brought up?

[SeeNoEvil]

2bizE wrote: If I had family that could not attend, I would ensure my bride and I had both received our endowments prior to the wedding, and then cancel the temple wedding and get married somewhere in public. You could plan the outdoors event from the beginning, but just not let others in on the plan to cancel the temple wedding. Then my wife and I could get married where all family could attend, and we could both still go to the temple.

Perfect!! And is the plan to NOT tell the temple going family about the time and place for the real wedding?

[Give It Time]

My thoughts, too, Nonny. I thought the wedding described in the OP was beautiful. I would prefer my son marry in a country where there is no one year wait and the church doesn't control the wedding.

[Newme]

I'm also glad you had a good experience with your family - sounds like it was beautiful in many ways!

And I agree that the church misses the mark by excluding & breaking up family - ironically since they otherwise put a lot of effort in supporting family.

[Give It Time]

I've found there's a very big difference between what the church promotes and what actually goes on within the church.

[2bizE]

2bizE wrote: If I had family that could not attend, I would ensure my bride and I had both received our endowments prior to the wedding, and then cancel the temple wedding and get married somewhere in public. You could plan the outdoors event from the beginning, but just not let others in on the plan to cancel the temple wedding. Then my wife and I could get married where all family could attend, and we could both still go to the temple.

Perfect!! And is the plan to NOT tell the temple going family about the time and place for the real wedding?

I was just trying to be sneeky and get the BP and SP thinking you are getting married in the temple but not go through with it. You could claim the hardship it would cause family without a temple recommend would be too much to bear. I can't even imaging raising my daughter for 20 years and then not getting to go to her marriage. Terrible policy.
I sometimes dream of a high leader from another faith has a son marrying a daughter or granddaughter of elder bednar or another Q15. The wedding is to be performed at the cathedral of the other faith. When bednar tries to enter they tell him he cannot because he is not of that faith. Touché

[SeeNoEvil]

GiveItTime wrote" I've found there's a very big difference between what the church promotes and what actually goes on within the church.

NewMe wrote: And I agree that the church misses the mark by excluding & breaking up family - ironically since they otherwise put a lot of effort in supporting family.

I couldn't agree with you more. How many times did we sing those songs in Primary about Families Can Be Together Forever over and over until they were bedded permanently in our heads. The key word here is "family" and the churches definition of "family" is all inclusive. There are rules you must follow if you want to be in their family. If you don't tow the line then you are out. Excluding families from a marriage ceremony is symbolic of how the church really feels about families.

2bizE wrote: I was just trying to be sneeky and get the BP and SP thinking you are getting married in the temple but not go through with it. You could claim the hardship it would cause family without a temple recommend would be too much to bear. I can't even imaging raising my daughter for 20 years and then not getting to go to her marriage. Terrible policy.
I sometimes dream of a high leader from another faith has a son marrying a daughter or granddaughter of elder bednar or another Q15. The wedding is to be performed at the cathedral of the other faith. When bednar tries to enter they tell him he cannot because he is not of that faith. Touché

You sneaky devil! My dream would be to see those attending the temple arriving to find it moved to another location and not know where it is and miss the wedding.

Regarding LDS temple marriage policy: "Of all the peculiar policies that represent orthodox LDS positions of faith and practice, this one is perhaps the least known about by those outside of the Mormon Church. " by, Orin Ryssman

You might find this article interesting. It talks about the problems that arise when the bride or grooms family is not LDS. Can you imagine the shock parents must feel when they learn they can not attend the wedding they are paying for?

http://mit.irr.org/human-cost-of-mormon ... e-policies

[DPRoberts]

SNE, so glad to hear of a wedding well done. Weddings can be such a joyful, life-affirming, family and community bonding time.

The wedding POX had a definite contribution toward my disaffection.

Niece's wedding while sister stood outside.

The last time I had a TR, the main impetus was to attend the wedding of my niece. Her mom, my DS, was largely inactive since her BYU years. My BIL is a nevermo. The groom's parents and most of his extended family were active members. This definitely added weight to my shelf and changed my views on the situation. I came to support my niece, which I did, but who was supporting my sister? Who had the arrogance to say that I was worthy to attend while the parents who supported and reared my niece were not? Even though my sister thanked me for supporting my niece, I felt very conflicted. I traveled hundreds of miles to support my sister as well, and felt like I had failed at that.

I later detected that my sister had likely become more embittered toward the Church.

Several years later. Another niece, no TR.

This time, the wedding was local, and I did not have or want a TR. DW went to the ceremony, I went to the office. My wife told me that BIL and SIL stayed outside during the sealing. That evening a ring ceremony was attempted for those who had been left out, but it just did not have the intensity of most civil ceremonies I have seen. Seemed like an afterthought.

What gives this church the right to keep them out, I asked? They are amazing parents, IMO, far better than many a TR holder. Same with my sister. Talk about missing the mark!

How this policy will fail and fall.

This policy needs to go the way of the priesthood ban, and the sooner the better. I am betting on the younger generation to reject this in large enough numbers to get the attention of 'corporate'.

My DD, knowing that her siblings would not be able to attend a temple wedding, expressed in Young Women class her willingness to wait the year in order to have a wedding where her siblings could attend. Her Young Women leaders were at a loss to have a meaningful discussion with her. As many more young people have friends and siblings who disaffect, I hope my DD's attitude becomes more prevalent.


Ryssman article. I thought the word "barbaric" was well chosen.

[wtfluff]

Here's what really blows my mind now, looking in from the outside: My mormon bubble was so incredibly thick, that I never gave a second thought to my in-laws sitting out in the waiting room. My in-laws just took it in stride. They've missed 75% of their kid's actual wedding ceremonies, so unfortunately, they are accustomed to it.

I may get to hang out with them if any of my kids decide to do the temple thing. I guess that will give me a GREAT opportunity to apologize. Edit-edit: Come to think of it, it won't just be my kids. My nieces / nephews on that side of the family will be heading to the temple for marriage at any time; I'll likely get the opportunity to apologize then...


Edit: In-laws clarifications...

[SeeNoEvil]

I came to support my niece, which I did, but who was supporting my sister? Who had the arrogance to say that I was worthy to attend while the parents who supported and reared my niece were not?

wtfluff wrote: Here's what really blows my mind now, looking in from the outside: My mormon bubble was so incredibly thick, that I never gave a second thought to my sitting out in the waiting room.

I'm guilty on both accounts! In my TBM days I never thought much about those standing outside. And in my ignorance they didn't matter and I failed to recognize their exclusion and need for support. The things I did and thought all in the name of being a Mormon still haunt me to this day and there are many such as this one I wish I could do over.

What is the big deal about the temple wedding anyway? No music, no flowers, people dressed in weird outfits, the brides dress all covered up, groom looking like a dork in a bakers hat.... yep! there's nothing romantic and exciting about the temple ceremony. The joyous moment you waited and prepared for all you life is all sucked up by the weirdness of the whole thing.