Because thou art Lukewarm...

[Korihor]

... I will spew thee from my mouth. Rev 3:16

I remember these words all too well. It seems NOM is a middle ground and effectively we are "lukewarm". Feel free to disagree and comment below.

We are the island of misfit toys. We don't seem to belong anywhere, but at least we're together. I'm glad I was spewed from that mouth. I wasn't happy there.

I remember my TBM mindset that I couldn't be lukewarm, I had to be all in. And that prevented me from ever considering leaving. In order to get from right to left, you have to pass through the middle. And the middle is even worse than the left!

I've come appreciate the middle more than I could ever imagine. In the middle, I learned to weep with those who weep and rejoice with those who rejoice. On the far right, I was sedated to reality. I couldn't see the spectrum of human emotions. On the left, I felt at home but with guilt.

I think I'm finally starting to leave the middle ground. I've had more fun in the middle ground than anywhere else. Y'all have been my friends, my understand and my support. Thank you.

This is not goodbye, but maybe I'm mailing the graduation announcements. We'll see where the road leads, but I don't think this guy is me anymore.

[document]

A little over a week ago I was approached by two young men in the park. They were not Mormon missionaries as they were both wearing tank tops and one was sporting quite the impressive beard for such a young man. They were evangelicals asking if I embraced both Jesus Christ as the sole Lord and Savior and if I embraced the Bible as the only word of God.

I told them I was actively engaged in a Christian church and that I embraced the concept of Jesus Christ in my life, even if I don't literally believe. Death and rebirth of self in the shaping of a soul is beautiful, I see the wonders of the community, and I find the charity work I can provide in my parish is wonderful.

They found my viewpoint abhorrent.

They asked if they could pray with me. I said that is fine, and during the pray he said something along the lines of "Let [doc] know that he must be steadfast in your faith and truly know and believe, or you will spew him from your mouth like lukewarm water".

I had no response. I'd like to say I had a witty response, I was just shocked to hear that.

To someone, I'm sure we are all lukewarm.

[Give It Time]

On the other hand, lukewarm water is considered to be a wonderful aid to the digestive system.

[wtfluff]

Lukewarm?

Hmmm. Not too hot. Not too cold. Yeah, juuuuuuuuuust right!

[deacon blues]

I am proudly lukewarm. It seems like the hot and cold people of the world, despise each other, cause animosity and even wars, are quite often very narrow minded, and seem to talk past each other in politics and religion. In religion I am lukewarm, in reality, I'm hot for the truth.

[Thoughtful]

My patriarchal blessing talks about bringing lukewarm people to know Christ.

Does that mean ppl who are lukewarm about helping the poor?

Who persecute children of God who live or feel differently than they do?

Who consider "the gospel" to be the JS story rather than the good news of Christ?

I don't for a second feel that I am lukewarm for having had a faith transition. There's a lot of apathy and such at church about Christ, being inclusive, and relieving suffering (aside from suffering in spirit prison, ppl do get fired up about temple work...).

[Mormorrisey]

Some interesting thoughts, and a great screed to live by. I feel the same way about this place, I don't know what I'd do without like-minded people helping me see I'm not the one taking crazy pills. Like other commentors, I'm proudly lukewarm. Another analogy I like which is meant to denigrate the middle way NOM is a cafeteria mormon. I'm a proud one of those too - I pick and choose what I like about the church, and discard the rest.

However, after looking deeply into the history and current practice of the cafeteria, these days it resembles a small-town Chuck-a-Rama after a mega-bus containing a touring Elvis impersonator crew has attacked the place. Not a whole lot of good stuff left by the time I get there.

[redjay]

Not sure I'm lukewarm, that would suggest apathy, not being bothered, going along for the ride.

I've constantly got one eye on the door and I edge towards it ever so ever so slowly.

[Korihor]

I've constantly got one eye on the door and I edge towards it ever so ever so slowly.

I just passed through the doorway and only have 1/2 my foot still inside. I gotta pull it out quickly before the door swings and closes on it.

It's an interesting place to be, I wanted it for a long time, now that I have it... I don't know what to do with it.

[2bizE]

So, in GD this past Sunday, we discussed the three degrees of glory. The sun, moon, and the stars. It was suggested the Middle Kingdom, terrestrial I think is the middle one, and will be made up of lukewarm members. What was on my mind was aren't stars actually suns? A star is a sun. A sun is a star. Wouldn't god know this and use a different comparison?

[redjay]

So, in GD this past Sunday, we discussed the three degrees of glory. The sun, moon, and the stars. It was suggested the Middle Kingdom, terrestrial I think is the middle one, and will be made up of lukewarm members. What was on my mind was aren't stars actually suns? A star is a sun. A sun is a star. Wouldn't god know this and use a different comparison?

Not if he decided to plagiarise Emanuele Swedenborg like Joseph.

Sunday's SS lesson was a struggle for me: knowing where Joseph came up with like the sun, moon and stars thing, and seeing the difference between D&C 76 (where it says the good who died without knowledge would go to the Terrestrial) and later revelations (where it says that those who would have accepted in the flesh would get the celestial) - both through revelation, but contradicting; and having a quick google and finding out that Joseph would describe what he was seeing and then Sidney would say "i see the same". Then Sidney would describe something and Joseph would say "I see the same" - it's very easy to replace the word 'see' with 'imagine'.

Meanwhile the rest of the class was getting really excited about our esoteric knowledge. I just sat there shut my mouth and mentally writhed about on broken glass.

I don't mean to sound arrogant, it's not as if I'm superior to the rest of the SS class - I've simply listened to a few podcasts. I sit there on Sunday I see the young investigators looking for hope and a new life and I feel complicit in a sham, because I don't encourage debate around the messier parts of the doctrine, and I do let it all slide, because I want to attend with DW and not have any self-inflicted drama.

[Anon70]

I sit there on Sunday I see the young investigators looking for hope and a new life and I feel complicit in a sham, because I don't encourage debate around the messier parts of the doctrine, and I do let it all slide, because I want to attend with DW and not have any self-inflicted drama.

Me too

[wtfluff]

it's very easy to replace the word 'see' with 'imagine'.

I prefer to replace 'see' with 'hallucinate'. (But that's just me... )



.

[SeeNoEvil]

I've come appreciate the middle more than I could ever imagine. In the middle, I learned to weep with those who weep and rejoice with those who rejoice. On the far right, I was sedated to reality. I couldn't see the spectrum of human emotions. On the left, I felt at home but with guilt.

Well said! And so true. After spending several years in the middle I finally took the leap and exited to the left. I'm not to sure just how warm the water is supposed to be here in the left but what ever it is it feels amazing! In the left I too feel at home because I am finally on solid ground. At first there was the guilt as you mentioned until I recognized it for what it was. The indoctrination. Being told my entire life that I would be nothing without the church, fall into Satan's hands, have a miserable life, would be cast out into outer darkness, etc. sent a short lived terror through me until a good exmo friend pointed out it was all part of the life long brainwashing. Once I recognized the guilt for what it was it has been smooth sailing ever since. Treading in warm water was an important step. It's good to rest here for a bit while you gather your senses, re evaluate life, etc... I am glad I took it slow and treaded there for a long while before deciding what to do.

[NOMinally Mormon]

I once read an explanation of this scripture written by a bible scholar (not LDS). The scripture was addressing the people in Laodicea, and in likening them to lukewarm water, he was comparing them unfavorably to a congregation in an area with a hot springs and to another congregation near a cold springs. So the water analogy was used to make a point. It didn't actually mean that God considers lackadaisical followers worse than the wicked. Context is everything.

[Hagoth]

Remember that frog that stayed in the water until it boiled? He was much better off at luke warm.

Who else isn't luke warm? People who blow themselves up at concert venues full of children. People who crash planes into buildings. People who blow up federal buildings with preschoolers inside. People who have crusades to find converts at sword point. People who picket the funerals of fallen soldiers. People who claim God told them go kick children out of their church because their parents are different. People who send men on missions and marry their wives. People who tell you that God wants you to give them money even when it means not feeding your children.

If we had a little more luke warm in this world it would be a much safer and friendlier place.

[wtfluff]

Who else isn't luke warm? People who blow themselves up at concert venues full of children. People who crash planes into buildings. People who blow up federal buildings with preschoolers inside. People who have crusades to find converts at sword point. People who picket the funerals of fallen soldiers. People who claim God told them go kick children out of their church because their parents are different. People who send men on missions and marry their wives. People who tell you that God wants you to give them money even when it means not feeding your children.

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