To the ladies of NOM

[Silver Girl]

Thanks for this caring tribute, RR - you're one of my favorite connections here. I love the open way everyone communicates here, and the way everyone is accepted at his or her own place in life or status with the church.

The women on the board are wonderful - so wise and yet also witty and vulnerable. I often felt like an alien in the church, because I didn't have the requisite number of kids, I was divorced and hadn't been sealed to a super-great PH holder, and yadda-yadda. Here, I have met women I consider friends (even if we've not met in person) and with whom I can be candid.

The men on this board have helped restore my faith that there are good men in the world. So many times we see posts from husbands or fathers who are in the NOM place, but want to protect their families from pain and want to preserve their marriages. I wish marriage counselors could see the interaction on the board when someone posts these things. I also wish the wives could see how their husbands care, are hurting, and how much they truly love them.

I love you all - wish we could have a NOM reunion somewhere. I would be there!

Silver Girl

[Red Ryder]

Thanks for this caring tribute, RR - you're one of my favorite connections here. I love the open way everyone communicates here, and the way everyone is accepted at his or her own place in life or status with the church.

The women on the board are wonderful - so wise and yet also witty and vulnerable. I often felt like an alien in the church, because I didn't have the requisite number of kids, I was divorced and hadn't been sealed to a super-great PH holder, and yadda-yadda. Here, I have met women I consider friends (even if we've not met in person) and with whom I can be candid.

The men on this board have helped restore my faith that there are good men in the world. So many times we see posts from husbands or fathers who are in the NOM place, but want to protect their families from pain and want to preserve their marriages. I wish marriage counselors could see the interaction on the board when someone posts these things. I also wish the wives could see how their husbands care, are hurting, and how much they truly love them.

I love you all - wish we could have a NOM reunion somewhere. I would be there!

Silver Girl

I was in your airport yesterday for an hour lay over and remembered our visit and how fun it was to meet you last year!

It's interesting how we have different perspectives of ourselves on the board. Charlotte, I would have called you a board regular and consider your posts gold. Same with Anon70, although to be honest, I thought for the longest time you were a man most likely because anon70 in my head was a reference to the quorum of 70. Jinx, you're a board regular in my mind too and I enjoy your posts. I think we have kids the same age.

I'm wondering if the ladies of NOM would like to have their own private forum that's only visible when logged on? We could make this happen fairly easy and grant access by referral or some other means of validation like a temple recommend. To be fair, we would have to set up private forums for the Penguins too.

[Charlotte]

I'm wondering if the ladies of NOM would like to have their own private forum that's only visible when logged on? We could make this happen fairly easy and grant access by referral or some other means of validation like a temple recommend. To be fair, we would have to set up private forums for the Penguins too.

My $.02 is that, although I appreciate the thought, I probably wouldn't visit the private forum very much. Like you said earlier, it's easy to waste too much precious time online, and I've been trying to cut back. But beyond that, I've come to the conclusion that women talking amongst themselves is mostly pointless. We are virtually voiceless in the big church. It's kind of humiliating to acknowledge that we need men to be our advocates, but we do. So I prefer to discuss things in a mixed setting. Eventually it's going to have to boil down to men going to the men saying, "Please change this. I don't want to be associated with it anymore."

On the other hand, I can imagine that a private forum could be important, safe and healing for women in certain ways.

[SeeNoEvil]

I'm wondering if the ladies of NOM would like to have their own private forum that's only visible when logged on? We could make this happen fairly easy and grant access by referral or some other means of validation like a temple recommend. To be fair, we would have to set up private forums for the Penguins too.

My $.02 is that, although I appreciate the thought, I probably wouldn't visit the private forum very much. Like you said earlier, it's easy to waste too much precious time online, and I've been trying to cut back. But beyond that, I've come to the conclusion that women talking amongst themselves is mostly pointless. We are virtually voiceless in the big church. It's kind of humiliating to acknowledge that we need men to be our advocates, but we do. So I prefer to discuss things in a mixed setting. Eventually it's going to have to boil down to men going to the men saying, "Please change this. I don't want to be associated with it anymore."

On the other hand, I can imagine that a private forum could be important, safe and healing for women in certain ways.

A private forum might be just what some women need, but I prefer hearing from both men and women. I too have huge trust issues with men. I have shared my story many times on the old NOM . I can easily sum up that part of my life with the favorite line my TBM ex husband used to say which was, "I hold the priesthood! Therefore, you must obey." Need I say more? So I need to hear from kind loving men who actually care about their families and their spouse. I need to know that my nightmare was not normal of the church. One of the problems I see with the church is the division of gender where one is valued higher than the other. The blending of our insights from both genders is what I need.

[SeeNoEvil]

I too have felt like I don't really fit in here and don't really have any friends - maybe it's because I've never been able to make it up to Draper on a Sunday morning. But I really appreciate the wisdom of people like Alas and SilverGirl and SNE and MerrieMiss and Enough - the list goes on and on. Maybe I should change my name or picture - no one seems to know if I'm male or female. But as a middle-aged woman, it's nice to be learning wisdom from my sisters, as well as from the brethren.

The Draper group is well worth the trip. There are other's in the Moridor so maybe you can find one closer. I used to go the one in Draper until I moved out of state a year ago. To bad I didn't know you were living there... we could have driven up together! Thanks for compliment. I too enjoy your posts and look forward to hearing more.

[Newme]

I noticed on the old board a lot of friendships. I assumed over time I'd become "virtual friends". On this site I don't feel like I'm connecting but I also don't post much, I comment more. One of my posts got one response. So there are times I feel like I don't have the interaction I had hoped for but also I am moving away from the crisis part of my evolution and more into the next phase so I lurk more and comment when I feel like it. I learn a lot from this board-from
the women and men.

I've noticed this at times. I wonder if it's partly because of being online and not in person.
If you or I were to say something in person to someone, it would obviously (or not?) be rude for them not to respond.

I also wonder about personality types attracted to forums as well as who question the church - maybe we tend to be thinkers more than feelers. And possibly, that lends to not being very empathic or as socially connected and supportive as ideal.

Who knows? I have thought it would be fun to get together in person - maybe for a picnic up the canyon (for those in Utah) - maybe play volleyball or frisby or something. Or... just get together for coffee or frozen yogurt. I know they have some meet-ups - but it might be fun to specifically get together with people here. I imagine many of us are a bit nervous about that for various reasons - or just really busy, which is why we don't. I'm up for maybe getting together in July - I'm in Utah County. Oh, and there's also Oasis which is in SLC area as well as Utah county.

I'll just state - that I'd be glad to be connect with anyone who wants friendship or support. Feel free to pm me.

RedRyder,
I love what you mentioned about life being short - and the need to live it up! Amen amen amen, Brother!

[alas]

I'm wondering if the ladies of NOM would like to have their own private forum that's only visible when logged on? We could make this happen fairly easy and grant access by referral or some other means of validation like a temple recommend. To be fair, we would have to set up private forums for the Penguins too.

My $.02 is that, although I appreciate the thought, I probably wouldn't visit the private forum very much. Like you said earlier, it's easy to waste too much precious time online, and I've been trying to cut back. But beyond that, I've come to the conclusion that women talking amongst themselves is mostly pointless. We are virtually voiceless in the big church. It's kind of humiliating to acknowledge that we need men to be our advocates, but we do. So I prefer to discuss things in a mixed setting. Eventually it's going to have to boil down to men going to the men saying, "Please change this. I don't want to be associated with it anymore."

On the other hand, I can imagine that a private forum could be important, safe and healing for women in certain ways.

Let me first just say, thanks to RR for starting this thread and saying what the did about what he has learned from us ladies.

Then, consider what it would have been like if there was a separate forum for us women. All the stuff the men have learned from the women's perspective would have been sealed away in that private forum. Those of us who have been through abuse would talk about it just with the other women, especially during the most vulnerable times when the experience is raw and as Give It Time said, when we struggle to trust men. The best learning is when the feelings are raw, and that would be cut off from the men. And as far women learning to trust again after abuse, that would also be slowed if the women who struggled to trust just hide in a women's only forum. When I was healing, I purposely picked male counselor's because if they were jerks, I would see it, and leave and if they were good guys, then gradually, I would learn to trust. It was hard, and I was not always nice to my male counselor's, but eventually I learned to trust again.

Nope, I vote for we stay out with the men as part of the healing process. If one woman feels unsafe in the open forum, she can PM someone she feels safe with. I have had several people do just that with me, sometimes before they announce it to the general board, and sometimes just because they needed to say it to someone, and sometimes for specific advice. I know River Morgan had it happen too. So, that is always an option for when someone does not feel safe in the open forums.

[alas]

I noticed on the old board a lot of friendships. I assumed over time I'd become "virtual friends". On this site I don't feel like I'm connecting but I also don't post much, I comment more. One of my posts got one response. So there are times I feel like I don't have the interaction I had hoped for but also I am moving away from the crisis part of my evolution and more into the next phase so I lurk more and comment when I feel like it. I learn a lot from this board-from
the women and men.

I've noticed this at times. I wonder if it's partly because of being online and not in person.
If you or I were to say something in person to someone, it would obviously (or not?) be rude for them not to respond.

I also wonder about personality types attracted to forums as well as who question the church - maybe we tend to be thinkers more than feelers. And possibly, that lends to not being very empathic or as socially connected and supportive as ideal.

Who knows? I have thought it would be fun to get together in person - maybe for a picnic up the canyon (for those in Utah) - maybe play volleyball or frisby or something. Or... just get together for coffee or frozen yogurt. I know they have some meet-ups - but it might be fun to specifically get together with people here. I imagine many of us are a bit nervous about that for various reasons - or just really busy, which is why we don't.

I'll just state - that I'd be glad to be connect with anyone who wants friendship or support. Feel free to pm me.

RedRyder,
I love what you mentioned about life being short - and the need to live it up! Amen amen amen, Brother!

I think there is for sure something about the personality types of both those who question the church and those who choose an online forum to discuss it. We tend to be over represented in the rare personality type of the introvert, thinking rather than feeling, value truth over loyality. The Brigs personality type of INTP (if I am remembering my letters correctly) is like 2% of the total population and when we have done a survey here, it is like 50% of NOMs. The other over represented in INFP, with the variant being feeling over thinking, so we do have some who leave the church for emotional things like not liking the way the church is with LGBT issues. (I am INFP one week and INTP the next) So, we are not the outgoing type, but introverted nerds. We tend to let other people pick us as friends and let them make the effort to get to know us, while we sit back and analyze the relationship. So get a bunch of us together at a party and if we didn't know each other from NOM, it would be a dead party until a Star Wars conversation got going in one corner and StarTreck in the other and LOTR in another. We also tend to be more liberal in our politics than the average church member. Our values tend to be more toward caring about people and fairness than about purity, rules, and the things of conservative values. So, since we belong to a rare personality type we probably have little experience interacting with people of the same personality type, because there aren't that many of us running around in real life.

[Give It Time]

I'm wondering if the ladies of NOM would like to have their own private forum that's only visible when logged on? We could make this happen fairly easy and grant access by referral or some other means of validation like a temple recommend. To be fair, we would have to set up private forums for the Penguins too.

My $.02 is that, although I appreciate the thought, I probably wouldn't visit the private forum very much. Like you said earlier, it's easy to waste too much precious time online, and I've been trying to cut back. But beyond that, I've come to the conclusion that women talking amongst themselves is mostly pointless. We are virtually voiceless in the big church. It's kind of humiliating to acknowledge that we need men to be our advocates, but we do. So I prefer to discuss things in a mixed setting. Eventually it's going to have to boil down to men going to the men saying, "Please change this. I don't want to be associated with it anymore."

On the other hand, I can imagine that a private forum could be important, safe and healing for women in certain ways.

Let me first just say, thanks to RR for starting this thread and saying what the did about what he has learned from us ladies.

Then, consider what it would have been like if there was a separate forum for us women. All the stuff the men have learned from the women's perspective would have been sealed away in that private forum. Those of us who have been through abuse would talk about it just with the other women, especially during the most vulnerable times when the experience is raw and as Give It Time said, when we struggle to trust men. The best learning is when the feelings are raw, and that would be cut off from the men. And as far women learning to trust again after abuse, that would also be slowed if the women who struggled to trust just hide in a women's only forum. When I was healing, I purposely picked male counselor's because if they were jerks, I would see it, and leave and if they were good guys, then gradually, I would learn to trust. It was hard, and I was not always nice to my male counselor's, but eventually I learned to trust again.

Nope, I vote for we stay out with the men as part of the healing process. If one woman feels unsafe in the open forum, she can PM someone she feels safe with. I have had several people do just that with me, sometimes before they announce it to the general board, and sometimes just because they needed to say it to someone, and sometimes for specific advice. I know River Morgan had it happen too. So, that is always an option for when someone does not feel safe in the open forums.

I was waffling on this, but I think alas speaks wisdom.

Keep things public.

[Newme]

I noticed on the old board a lot of friendships. I assumed over time I'd become "virtual friends". On this site I don't feel like I'm connecting but I also don't post much, I comment more. One of my posts got one response. So there are times I feel like I don't have the interaction I had hoped for but also I am moving away from the crisis part of my evolution and more into the next phase so I lurk more and comment when I feel like it. I learn a lot from this board-from
the women and men.

I've noticed this at times. I wonder if it's partly because of being online and not in person.
If you or I were to say something in person to someone, it would obviously (or not?) be rude for them not to respond.

I also wonder about personality types attracted to forums as well as who question the church - maybe we tend to be thinkers more than feelers. And possibly, that lends to not being very empathic or as socially connected and supportive as ideal.

Who knows? I have thought it would be fun to get together in person - maybe for a picnic up the canyon (for those in Utah) - maybe play volleyball or frisby or something. Or... just get together for coffee or frozen yogurt. I know they have some meet-ups - but it might be fun to specifically get together with people here. I imagine many of us are a bit nervous about that for various reasons - or just really busy, which is why we don't.

I'll just state - that I'd be glad to be connect with anyone who wants friendship or support. Feel free to pm me.

RedRyder,
I love what you mentioned about life being short - and the need to live it up! Amen amen amen, Brother!

I think there is for sure something about the personality types of both those who question the church and those who choose an online forum to discuss it. We tend to be over represented in the rare personality type of the introvert, thinking rather than feeling, value truth over loyality. The Brigs personality type of INTP (if I am remembering my letters correctly) is like 2% of the total population and when we have done a survey here, it is like 50% of NOMs. The other over represented in INFP, with the variant being feeling over thinking, so we do have some who leave the church for emotional things like not liking the way the church is with LGBT issues. (I am INFP one week and INTP the next) So, we are not the outgoing type, but introverted nerds. We tend to let other people pick us as friends and let them make the effort to get to know us, while we sit back and analyze the relationship. So get a bunch of us together at a party and if we didn't know each other from NOM, it would be a dead party until a Star Wars conversation got going in one corner and StarTreck in the other and LOTR in another. We also tend to be more liberal in our politics than the average church member. Our values tend to be more toward caring about people and fairness than about purity, rules, and the things of conservative values. So, since we belong to a rare personality type we probably have little experience interacting with people of the same personality type, because there aren't that many of us running around in real life.

I agree mostly, though there are several of us who do not identify with a single political party's ideologies.
I do care about people and the spirit of the rules more than trivial "rules" and I tend to be a free-thinker.
But yeah, I'd guess many of us are introverts. I'm INTJ - very rare, especially among women, and of course, I also have my emotional times, but I tend to think through emotions, especially when writing - and can know how to act extroverted to get along in the world (working on EQ), but solitude is precious.

Your image of getting a bunch of us together is funny & probably somewhat realistic as to explain partly why we're not all close buddies irl.

[Mormorrisey]

To add my two cents, I'm glad for the women of this board.

My initial foray into the joys of womanhood was challenging, as I have a narcissitic mother - but since then, I've been surrounded by very strong women, both in and out of the church, that have blessed my life immensely. Some of these have been secular feminists, like my best friend and former work colleague who is a married lesbian, who taught me more on how the patriarchy works than any woman alive. I will be forever grateful for her perspective. Even Sis. M., who is TBM all the way and buys into the "I don't need the priesthood" mantra, is pretty strong-minded and willed. I can't imagine being married to a lickspittle who just does what I say, she's fought me tooth and nail for over 20-odd years now and it's added so much to the spice of our marriage, as have my female children to our lives in general. I'm proud that they are all strong women who question things, even if they don't come to the same conclusions as I do.

And that goes to all of you NOM women as well. Your perspective adds so much to this board, and it's wonderful to not even know if a poster is male or female, unless explicitly stated, that's one of the joys of posting here. As much as I've seen no mention of race, social class or colour, it's nice that the board is fairly genderless as well. Another reason this is the best ward on the internet, bar none.

[MoPag]

So I need to hear from kind loving men who actually care about their families and their spouse. I need to know that my nightmare was not normal of the church. One of the problems I see with the church is the division of gender where one is valued higher than the other. The blending of our insights from both genders is what I need.

Thank you so much SNE!!! This is exactly what I need too. (Although it is really sweet of RR to offer us and all female forum.)

I like the idea Alas presented about PMing others if you feel uncomfortable. Anyone is welcome to PM me. I might not have any good advice to offer, but I will try to make you laugh.

The way the church handles gender makes it weaker as a whole. We are better than the church. Like Mormorrisey said, we are the best ward on the internet!

[rosebud]

I am brand new here but have to chime in and say I am very grateful for any female poster on here - I am female as well.

One interesting part of my faith transition has been this panicked feeling of thinking I will be judged especially harshly as a woman leaving the church. I suppose that exposes my own prejudices or possibly personal experiences.

I tend to notice (maybe this is just my current ward) that it is usually women that come to church without their inactive/unbelieving spouse. Before I came out to my husband, I would imagine him taking the kids to church by himself and it would send me into a panic. I would actually think, "Moms don't leave the church!" I know this is not correct now, but just getting onto this site and reading some other ex-mormon forums helped me to calm down every time I saw a woman make a post.

Hope I can contribute here.

[Silver Girl]

Thanks for this caring tribute, RR - you're one of my favorite connections here. I love the open way everyone communicates here, and the way everyone is accepted at his or her own place in life or status with the church.

The women on the board are wonderful - so wise and yet also witty and vulnerable. I often felt like an alien in the church, because I didn't have the requisite number of kids, I was divorced and hadn't been sealed to a super-great PH holder, and yadda-yadda. Here, I have met women I consider friends (even if we've not met in person) and with whom I can be candid.

The men on this board have helped restore my faith that there are good men in the world. So many times we see posts from husbands or fathers who are in the NOM place, but want to protect their families from pain and want to preserve their marriages. I wish marriage counselors could see the interaction on the board when someone posts these things. I also wish the wives could see how their husbands care, are hurting, and how much they truly love them.

I love you all - wish we could have a NOM reunion somewhere. I would be there!

Silver Girl

I was in your airport yesterday for an hour lay over and remembered our visit and how fun it was to meet you last year!

It's interesting how we have different perspectives of ourselves on the board. Charlotte, I would have called you a board regular and consider your posts gold. Same with Anon70, although to be honest, I thought for the longest time you were a man most likely because anon70 in my head was a reference to the quorum of 70. Jinx, you're a board regular in my mind too and I enjoy your posts. I think we have kids the same age.

I'm wondering if the ladies of NOM would like to have their own private forum that's only visible when logged on? We could make this happen fairly easy and grant access by referral or some other means of validation like a temple recommend. To be fair, we would have to set up private forums for the Penguins too.

I so wish you'd told me you were at our airport - I would have met up with you there! I enjoyed meeting you in person last year, and I hope you are back this way again sometime soon. I still want to visit Phoenix and see the lunch bunch there!

As for a forum for the women, I think it's thoughtful to offer it, but I personally would likely not frequent it that often. If some women feel they need a private forum, I would not object. I don't see it as an 'either/or' situation, since women could visit both groups. I personally feel I benefit tremendously from the diversity here, in every way. There's a broad range of ages, an equally broad range of experience, and I love having input from the men.

[trophywife26.2]

I'm so sorry to hear that there have been unwelcome feelings! I wanted 50% female mods to avoid this. Unfortunately I know I am not as active on the forum as I used to be, but TRY to log in every day. Please PM me if there is ever an issue and you're not sure if something being said is out of line or even if you just want another female to read your thread and chime in with their experience. I would love to do that for anyone.

I love that the forum here is open because as mentioned I love that we can work through these issues and share some things that might not be dared to be shared in person or across gender without a forum like this. I feel it is a very respectful tone most of the time, especially in comparison to somewhere like reddit. I know sometimes even in marriage relationships we don't share some of these feelings because it can feel like there is more at stake with our partners and we can use a forum like this to test out an idea or thought before taking it to a partner. Especially in a sensitive situation like mixed faith relationship.

If any women (who would consider themselves more on the exmo side) that would like access to a "safe space" there is a closed exmo subreddit for women only. There are also groups on facebook for exmo women that even do in person meets especially/more frequently for Utahns. Please PM if you would like more information about getting in to those groups. Draper meet up was great when I went, but it is a male heavy meet up, I never felt like that was an issue, but there is a very different feeling when I meet with my friends I met through for example, Post Mormon Relief Society Facebook group.

[hmb]

Wow. I always thought of myself as a sort of outcast. Never really fit, anywhere. Now I'm thinking, maybe it's just that drown-in belief that women are sub-important compared to men. My head argues, but my gut still believes. This is not just a church issue, but the church definitely compounds the problem. I always thought of my "outcastness" as a personality flaw. I'm too sarcastic, to socially awkward, and too introverted. Maybe there really isn't anything wrong with me. What a thought.

[shadow]

I wanted to say, "Everything!" I wanted to say that, because these matters had everything to do with whether or not I even wanted to be in the CK.

Even in my hard-core TBM/BYU days, I told my husband I would choose to be a ministering angel before I would agree to living in the CK as a plural wife & eternal baby-making machine. So, I guess that means I've never wanted to live in TSCCK. Information has only served to solidify that position.

Occasionally the topic of what we would do if the other one died young would come up in discussions with my wife. Usually, my wife would say things like she didn't want me to get remarried. I never understood it. Especially if she died young, why wouldn't she want me to be able to experience the joy of marriage again if she were dead? Why wouldn't she want our kids to have a step-mom to love them after their mom's death? If I died, I would want my wife to do whatever makes her and our family happy. It just seemed unnecessarily possessive and jealous. We were talking about after one of us dies, not what we wanted to do next week.

At some point this past year, the topic came up again, but her response was different this time. She said that of course she would want me to get married. It was such a start divergence from her past statements that I asked her what had changed.

I haven't been to the temple in years, and my last recommend expired 4 or 5 years ago. What she said was that since I wouldn't be getting married in the temple, then she was fine with me getting remarried if she died, and then she expressed the same sort of befuddlement that I previously had. Why wouldn't she want me to be happy and to get married if that made me happy?

It all came down to not wanting to be polygamous in the celestial kingdom. What I wondered, but didn't ask at that time (because I'm not an idiotic masochist), was what she thought was going to happen to her now that I wasn't going to be there with her in the celestial kingdom.

[Linked]

Can I add my gratitude for the women of NOM?

When I first joined there was a lot of discussion about abuse from a husband and how the church is abusive. I am lucky to not have spent much time in severely abusive relationships so it's not something I have had to think about. That discussion led me to reevaluate the way I treat my wife. I learned so much from the great women who were willing to share their stories and their knowledge and I will always be grateful for that.

Also, I come from a mother-dominating home, so I have a hard time relating with the idea of the meek, submissive, voiceless women that the church tries to manipulate women into. My wife is closer to the church narrative than to my mom, so sometimes I have a hard time relating to her and I hurt our relationship. But thanks to you and your posts I am getting better at understanding some of the feelings my wife is having and women in the church generally.

This place would not be half of what it is without you, please stay and please use your voice here, we are all better for it.

[Fifi de la Vergne]

Occasionally the topic of what we would do if the other one died young would come up in discussions with my wife. Usually, my wife would say things like she didn't want me to get remarried. I never understood it. Especially if she died young, why wouldn't she want me to be able to experience the joy of marriage again if she were dead? Why wouldn't she want our kids to have a step-mom to love them after their mom's death? If I died, I would want my wife to do whatever makes her and our family happy. It just seemed unnecessarily possessive and jealous. We were talking about after one of us dies, not what we wanted to do next week. . . It all came down to not wanting to be polygamous in the celestial kingdom.

I know people IRL who have made their husbands promise not to remarry if they were to die before him. One of them did, and the husband has been faithful to his promise, but it's been lonely for him. This is a prime example of how polygamy lives on in the church today and continues to hurt both men and women.

Polygamy, not in the past but its potential to be in my future, was my biggest issue with the church when I still believed, and the only way I kept it from overpowering all the other things that I found good and helpful was to take a deep breath and yep, to put it on the proverbial shelf. All a woman has in LDS doctrine is the promise of being a queen and helpmeet and mother . . . but without even the security of being someone's one and only. She's just one of several or many. And while she may have children without number, as a heavenly mother she will be nameless and faceless and barely acknowledged.

Sorry for the rant/threadjack. It's been a hard week.

[Give It Time]

I am brand new here but have to chime in and say I am very grateful for any female poster on here - I am female as well.

One interesting part of my faith transition has been this panicked feeling of thinking I will be judged especially harshly as a woman leaving the church. I suppose that exposes my own prejudices or possibly personal experiences.

I tend to notice (maybe this is just my current ward) that it is usually women that come to church without their inactive/unbelieving spouse. Before I came out to my husband, I would imagine him taking the kids to church by himself and it would send me into a panic. I would actually think, "Moms don't leave the church!" I know this is not correct now, but just getting onto this site and reading some other ex-mormon forums helped me to calm down every time I saw a woman make a post.

Hope I can contribute here.

I never considered that. Usually when I see a man with just his children, it's because of divorce and, come to think of it, since the weekends are usually the father's, this sight should be more common.

My ex used to walk out of the room when there was a woman speaker at conference. He figured he didn't need to listen to her, because what she had to say didn't, and never would, apply to him.

Here's my little turnabout.

If the women in the church looked at the church, I mean really looked at it, they'd tell their husbands it really is pointless for women to go to church, because we're just auxiliary anyway. Then we'd all get mani-pedis, gab and get the same fulfillment from RS and have a much better time.