To the ladies of NOM
To the ladies of NOM
I'm just stepping back into reality after a wonderful vacation and saw the board comparison post and read through SNE's post where she didnt feel welcome.
You ladies have changed my whole perspective on numerous things. Marriage, patriarchy, relationships, fashion, patriarchy, what it means to be a Mormon Woman, patriarchy, sisterhood, garments and femininity, garments and menstration, patriarchy, and jello recipes. Did I mention patriarchy? Kidding aside, you all have made me know what it feels like to be a women deep inside the catacombs of Mormonism.
I'm a better man, husband, and father because of the perspective you share on the board.
Thank you for your participation and shared wisdom.
SNE, you've been missed and I apologize for assuming you've found bigger and better things in the world to do with your time.
My vacation has taught me that time is valuable. We should all get off the internet and find meaningful things to do with our lives. Hell, we should all become friends in real life and spend time together! Mormonism steals time. NOM does too!
Carry on, I have a plane to catch.
You ladies have changed my whole perspective on numerous things. Marriage, patriarchy, relationships, fashion, patriarchy, what it means to be a Mormon Woman, patriarchy, sisterhood, garments and femininity, garments and menstration, patriarchy, and jello recipes. Did I mention patriarchy? Kidding aside, you all have made me know what it feels like to be a women deep inside the catacombs of Mormonism.
I'm a better man, husband, and father because of the perspective you share on the board.
Thank you for your participation and shared wisdom.
SNE, you've been missed and I apologize for assuming you've found bigger and better things in the world to do with your time.
My vacation has taught me that time is valuable. We should all get off the internet and find meaningful things to do with our lives. Hell, we should all become friends in real life and spend time together! Mormonism steals time. NOM does too!
Carry on, I have a plane to catch.
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy
“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga
“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg
“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga
“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg
Re: To the ladies of NOM
I completely agree with RR. The women of NOM bring wonderful perspective and insight. I very much value their words and experience. Please ladies of NOM know that your posts are just as important as everyone else. One thing I really like is there are no priesthood lines of division here like at the church.
~2bizE
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Re: To the ladies of NOM
I have written three posts, because I agree, but I've erased them all because nothing is bothering me in a substantial way, at this time.
I'm soaking in the proverbial bubble bath.
I'm soaking in the proverbial bubble bath.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren
Re: To the ladies of NOM
Welcome back to to reality! I hope you went somewhere tropical and warm! Thank you for your comments. The one thing that brings us all together here on NOM is the church and our struggle to make sense of this whole crazy ordeal that is disrupting our worlds. No matter where we are on this path we all started at the same point and that is what makes this board so unique.
2bizE: I hadn't noticed the thing about there being no priesthood lines of division until you mentioned it. Wow! This is how it should be. Priesthood was my first and heaviest brick to land on my shelf clear back when I was in High School. To think of it NOM is where I started a new life without the church and where that division was gone for the first time in my life. I hadn't notice there weren't a lot of women on the board either until it was mentioned on another thread. It is good we have this blend of differences where we can all learn from each other no matter who we are.
GiveitTime: a proverbial bubble bath sounds like a perfect thing to do! Enjoy!
2bizE: I hadn't noticed the thing about there being no priesthood lines of division until you mentioned it. Wow! This is how it should be. Priesthood was my first and heaviest brick to land on my shelf clear back when I was in High School. To think of it NOM is where I started a new life without the church and where that division was gone for the first time in my life. I hadn't notice there weren't a lot of women on the board either until it was mentioned on another thread. It is good we have this blend of differences where we can all learn from each other no matter who we are.
It is always nice to be missed. I did move on to a few bigger and better things to do in my world but NOM will always be home. I check in often to take out the dog, bring in the mail, water the plants, etc... you know.... I always see a light on here but sometimes find no one home. I know I'm not the only one who feels out of place here at times, but I know I can alone make it a better experience for at least for myself by making more an effort to make others feel welcome. We are just like any new neighbor. It takes time to get to know our neighbors and build those life long relationships. And time is what I have and am willing to commit to because NOM is worth it.
GiveitTime: a proverbial bubble bath sounds like a perfect thing to do! Enjoy!
"Every event that has taken place in this universe has led you to this moment.
... The real question is, what will you do with this moment?" - Unknown
"Never arrive @ a point where you know everything - Korihor57
... The real question is, what will you do with this moment?" - Unknown
"Never arrive @ a point where you know everything - Korihor57
Re: To the ladies of NOM
I noticed on the old board a lot of friendships. I assumed over time I'd become "virtual friends". On this site I don't feel like I'm connecting but I also don't post much, I comment more. One of my posts got one response. So there are times I feel like I don't have the interaction I had hoped for but also I am moving away from the crisis part of my evolution and more into the next phase so I lurk more and comment when I feel like it. I learn a lot from this board-from
the women and men.
the women and men.
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Re: To the ladies of NOM
SNE, I'm glad you're here and glad for your contributions to the threads. Bubble baths are perfect.SeeNoEvil wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2017 10:18 am Welcome back to to reality! I hope you went somewhere tropical and warm! Thank you for your comments. The one thing that brings us all together here on NOM is the church and our struggle to make sense of this whole crazy ordeal that is disrupting our worlds. No matter where we are on this path we all started at the same point and that is what makes this board so unique.
2bizE: I hadn't noticed the thing about there being no priesthood lines of division until you mentioned it. Wow! This is how it should be. Priesthood was my first and heaviest brick to land on my shelf clear back when I was in High School. To think of it NOM is where I started a new life without the church and where that division was gone for the first time in my life. I hadn't notice there weren't a lot of women on the board either until it was mentioned on another thread. It is good we have this blend of differences where we can all learn from each other no matter who we are.
It is always nice to be missed. I did move on to a few bigger and better things to do in my world but NOM will always be home. I check in often to take out the dog, bring in the mail, water the plants, etc... you know.... I always see a light on here but sometimes find no one home. I know I'm not the only one who feels out of place here at times, but I know I can alone make it a better experience for at least for myself by making more an effort to make others feel welcome. We are just like any new neighbor. It takes time to get to know our neighbors and build those life long relationships. And time is what I have and am willing to commit to because NOM is worth it.
GiveitTime: a proverbial bubble bath sounds like a perfect thing to do! Enjoy!
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren
Re: To the ladies of NOM
RR, thank you for your acknowledgement that the ladies have value... wisdom... insights ...intelligence, even. I can't convey how rare of an experience this is, sadly, to be "seen" and validated this way in Mormonism -- yes, by the Patriarchy (not to mention being slighted by "well-behaving women".)
I guess I'm just so used to being seen as only an appendage-- it's good to remember that some people can recognize my worth and capabilities-- outside of the marriage relationship/to DH. He's great and all--- but, I've got a lot to offer, too...all on my own!
It says a lot about you-- that you're willing to take off the Mormon Male glasses & see life (and all people) in Color.
Re: To the ladies of NOM
Nailed it^^Enough wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2017 1:00 pm RR, thank you for your acknowledgement that the ladies have value... wisdom... insights ...intelligence, even. I can't convey how rare of an experience this is, sadly, to be "seen" and validated this way in Mormonism -- yes, by the Patriarchy (not to mention being slighted by "well-behaving women".)
I guess I'm just so used to being seen as only an appendage-- it's good to remember that some people can recognize my worth and capabilities-- outside of the marriage relationship/to DH. He's great and all--- but, I've got a lot to offer, too...all on my own!
It says a lot about you-- that you're willing to take off the Mormon Male glasses & see life (and all people) in Color.
And thank you RR!! This kind of acknowledgement is what NOM women need in order to begin healing from all the damage the church has inflected on us.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound
Re: To the ladies of NOM
You most certainly have much to be proud of. You're not only just an amazing person but I stand up and applaud what you have accomplished in your career and life with so many LDS odds against you. It is rare we get to meet who we talk to on this board and I consider it a privileged to have gotten the chance to meet you in person and to become friends. It is rare as well to receive compliments from a man and so I understand all to well your comments regarding this. I failed to recognize it for what it really was when RR stepped forward to shout out his thanks to women. I'm not used to hearing this in my world either so thank you Enough for recognizing it and thank you RR for your shout out to women.
"Every event that has taken place in this universe has led you to this moment.
... The real question is, what will you do with this moment?" - Unknown
"Never arrive @ a point where you know everything - Korihor57
... The real question is, what will you do with this moment?" - Unknown
"Never arrive @ a point where you know everything - Korihor57
Re: To the ladies of NOM
I too have felt like I don't really fit in here and don't really have any friends - maybe it's because I've never been able to make it up to Draper on a Sunday morning. But I really appreciate the wisdom of people like Alas and SilverGirl and SNE and MerrieMiss and Enough - the list goes on and on. Maybe I should change my name or picture - no one seems to know if I'm male or female. But as a middle-aged woman, it's nice to be learning wisdom from my sisters, as well as from the brethren.
“This is the best part of the week!” – Homer Simpson
“It’s the longest possible time before more church!” – Lisa Simpson
“It’s the longest possible time before more church!” – Lisa Simpson
Re: To the ladies of NOM
It has been invaluable for me to be able to hear from other women on this forum, to validate my feelings and to get advice about how to deal with the issues I face at church and at home.
By the same token it has been equally valuable to be able to hear from the men here. One of my biggest gripes has always been the way women are treated in the church but I have come to see that men who are not on the leadership track are also marginalised and dismissed and made to feel less valuable.
So I thank all of you for your thoughts, opinions, experiences and wisdom.
By the same token it has been equally valuable to be able to hear from the men here. One of my biggest gripes has always been the way women are treated in the church but I have come to see that men who are not on the leadership track are also marginalised and dismissed and made to feel less valuable.
So I thank all of you for your thoughts, opinions, experiences and wisdom.
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Re: To the ladies of NOM
It's no secret I have trust issues with men. The men here have helped tremendously with my healing in that.LostGirl wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2017 4:03 pm It has been invaluable for me to be able to hear from other women on this forum, to validate my feelings and to get advice about how to deal with the issues I face at church and at home.
By the same token it has been equally valuable to be able to hear from the men here. One of my biggest gripes has always been the way women are treated in the church but I have come to see that men who are not on the leadership track are also marginalised and dismissed and made to feel less valuable.
So I thank all of you for your thoughts, opinions, experiences and wisdom.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren
Re: To the ladies of NOM
Namaste, See No Evil.
I'm looking forward to seeing you & spending time IRL again! Someday-- it WILL be fun to get together, even in the craziest of circumstances!
- Culper Jr.
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Re: To the ladies of NOM
Totally agree. I have a daughter and I am very concerned about the effect the church has on her. I value the perspectives you share. It makes me a better dad and I am thankful for you all.
Re: To the ladies of NOM
Same here. I have three daughters, two out of the church and the other likely to follow. I am very grateful to the women of NOM for the insights you share. Helps me be a better man for the most important women in my life. Thank you.Culper Jr. wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2017 7:07 pmTotally agree. I have a daughter and I am very concerned about the effect the church has on her. I value the perspectives you share. It makes me a better dad and I am thankful for you all.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born
Re: To the ladies of NOM
I'm not a regular here and don't know about the situation in the OP, but just want to say thanks. It's very hard to wake up in middle age to the implications of LDS doctrine, scripture and practice for women.
At church you get shushed because, "What does your concern have to do with the atonement?" My point, actually. What does [insert particular offensive item] have to do with the Golden Rule, or a loving God, or a Savior who seemed to take special care for women?
Or you get shushed because, "First world problems." Again, my point. The first world is the place where we could attend to matters beyond mere survival. It's where we decided that rape and slavery and segregation were wrong. How does the plight of many around the world release us - the church that claims to be the leader in the final dispensation - from responsibility to have coherent teachings ennobling to men and women that can be brought to all the world?
I don't like to belly-ache, because I've been blessed to know lots of good LDS men, but words matter; we need to address Section 132. If the temple is going to matter to the rising generation, we need to address the endowment. Etc, etc.
If this was an outburst, I apologize. I wish there were more safe places to bring these thoughts and feelings.
Thanks for the give and take, for seeing things through other eyes.
At church you get shushed because, "What does your concern have to do with the atonement?" My point, actually. What does [insert particular offensive item] have to do with the Golden Rule, or a loving God, or a Savior who seemed to take special care for women?
Or you get shushed because, "First world problems." Again, my point. The first world is the place where we could attend to matters beyond mere survival. It's where we decided that rape and slavery and segregation were wrong. How does the plight of many around the world release us - the church that claims to be the leader in the final dispensation - from responsibility to have coherent teachings ennobling to men and women that can be brought to all the world?
I don't like to belly-ache, because I've been blessed to know lots of good LDS men, but words matter; we need to address Section 132. If the temple is going to matter to the rising generation, we need to address the endowment. Etc, etc.
If this was an outburst, I apologize. I wish there were more safe places to bring these thoughts and feelings.
Thanks for the give and take, for seeing things through other eyes.
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Re: To the ladies of NOM
Charlotte, I remember you from NOM 1.0 and I loved your posts. You would sum up pretty much what I was thinking in about 50 words or fewer. Meanwhile, my posts would go on and on. I just couldn't shut up. I think the reason for that is I, too, had been shushed.Charlotte wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2017 3:18 am I'm not a regular here and don't know about the situation in the OP, but just want to say thanks. It's very hard to wake up in middle age to the implications of LDS doctrine, scripture and practice for women.
At church you get shushed because, "What does your concern have to do with the atonement?" My point, actually. What does [insert particular offensive item] have to do with the Golden Rule, or a loving God, or a Savior who seemed to take special care for women?
Or you get shushed because, "First world problems." Again, my point. The first world is the place where we could attend to matters beyond mere survival. It's where we decided that rape and slavery and segregation were wrong. How does the plight of many around the world release us - the church that claims to be the leader in the final dispensation - from responsibility to have coherent teachings ennobling to men and women that can be brought to all the world?
I don't like to belly-ache, because I've been blessed to know lots of good LDS men, but words matter; we need to address Section 132. If the temple is going to matter to the rising generation, we need to address the endowment. Etc, etc.
If this was an outburst, I apologize. I wish there were more safe places to bring these thoughts and feelings.
Thanks for the give and take, for seeing things through other eyes.
I have only this to add to your comments. My experience was pretty much exactly the same, but I would be asked what my concerns had to do with my exaltation. It was meant to shut me down. I wanted to say, "Everything!" I wanted to say that, because these matters had everything to do with whether or not I even wanted to be in the CK. You make good points about first world-vs-third world needs and mentality.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren
Re: To the ladies of NOM
Charlotte, I remember you from NOM 1.0 also. It's good to see you again! I don't visit NOM much any more, either. I don't fault NOM for that...even though it's changing. People used to say that about 1.0 all the time, too.
Last edited by Enough on Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: To the ladies of NOM
Even in my hard-core TBM/BYU days, I told my husband I would choose to be a ministering angel before I would agree to living in the CK as a plural wife & eternal baby-making machine. So, I guess that means I've never wanted to live in TSCCK. Information has only served to solidify that position.Give It Time wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2017 5:52 am I wanted to say, "Everything!" I wanted to say that, because these matters had everything to do with whether or not I even wanted to be in the CK.
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Re: To the ladies of NOM
I've said this, too! In fact, I've said that I would rather not marry than marry someone who would put me down. [Ironic] That statement would always get outraged responses about losing my exaltation. I'd always tell them I'd be in the CK. That's good enough. I think about it now and it's kind of...well it's not a healthy goal to eventually rule over people. Just saying. Anyway, I did divorce that guy who put me down, so I made good on my word. When I talk to TBMs now who tell me I *need* to remarry, I tell them I'm just fine with being a ministering angel, thank you.Enough wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2017 7:18 amEven in my hard-core TBM/BYU days, I told my husband I would choose to be a ministering angel before I would agree to living in the CK as a plural wife & eternal baby-making machine. So, I guess that means I've never wanted to live in TSCCK. Information has only served to solidify that position.Give It Time wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2017 5:52 am I wanted to say, "Everything!" I wanted to say that, because these matters had everything to do with whether or not I even wanted to be in the CK.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren