What was different about the old board?

[Emower]

I just read the story of the SP who left over on exmo reddit. He said he was an active contributor to the old board before it went offline. Someone said it had been ressurected but he said it just wasn't the same. How was it different? I only barely saw it before it keeled over, but it makes me wonder why it is different and why people don't seem to come back?

[Corsair]

I just read the story of the SP who left over on exmo reddit. He said he was an active contributor to the old board before it went offline. Someone said it had been ressurected but he said it just wasn't the same. How was it different? I only barely saw it before it keeled over, but it makes me wonder why it is different and why people don't seem to come back?

The old board had ten years of history behind it detailed thousands of messages. The narrative of hundreds of people going through denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance through their faith transition made it a treasure trove of pain, joy, and liberation. There were some astonishing messages of people posting 1000 times then writing a grand goodbye as they fully transitioned away from the church, leaving NOM behind for their own improving spiritual health. It was a legacy that is not easily replaced.

A number of well known personalities from Mormon Stories, Mormon Expression, and Infants on Thrones had posts. I think you can still find an early Mormon Stories interview with one of the early mods. But it's like the Library of Alexandria burned down just before the fire department showed up. The admin of the old board had gone through his own transition and just wanted to be done as far as we could tell. The software was a much older version of PHPBB and it had ceased to allow new user registrations for some time. I have endless respect for the admin and only wish that I could have taken it over before the site died.

I can only hope that NOM 2.0 fills the same needs as before but it will be a long time before it has the same length of history that made NOM 1.0 such a compelling institution.

[Geocacher]

Here is a captured html image of the old board > https://web.archive.org/web/20080801000 ... mormon.org

From about 2008, here is a capture, and it is somewhat navigable, with links > https://web.archive.org/web/20080205093 ... on.org:80/

The Wayback Machine is a huge database of old website captures.

[Geocacher]

A capture from Feb 2006 by LDSman > https://web.archive.org/web/20111026190 ... php?t=3523

The Thread title is > "Posting Guidelines: Please read this!"

[Not Buying It]

I don't think it is fair to say that the old board was better. As Corsair said, the old board had a lot of history. With time, this board will too.

And as I have said before, I really don't think Thayne owes us jack squat from the old board. He gave us a free service for a long time, I find it ungrateful after all the time and work he put into it that people complained because it isn't there anymore. Yes, there may be posts that are lost forever, but Thayne didn't owe it to anyone to keep them - if you wanted them, you should have saved them rather than just assuming Thayne would always have them there for you. You shouldn't have expectations of strangers in the internet who are doing you a free service, especially when you never communicate those expectations to them.

[Linked]

I think the main difference is the history. The feeling when you find the site that there are posts from thousands who have walked the same road for a decade or more. And for the old timers it's like going where everybody knows your name, like in Cheers. The posts of most of the old timers are gone and most of them probably don't think it's worth the effort of making a new account to drop in here and say hi when none of their old buddies are around. I think there is also a slight difference in the purpose of this board. The old board was a place to be NOM, but the philosophical space to be NOM has been disappearing with the direction the church has gone and the verifiable information online, so this board is now more of a place for people stuck in religious limbo to commiserate and bounce ideas around.

I really don't think Thayne owes us jack squat from the old board. He gave us a free service for a long time, I find it ungrateful after all the time and work he put into it that people complained because it isn't there anymore. Yes, there may be posts that are lost forever, but Thayne didn't owe it to anyone to keep them - if you wanted them, you should have saved them rather than just assuming Thayne would always have them there for you. You shouldn't have expectations of strangers in the internet who are doing you a free service, especially when you never communicate those expectations to them.

I have a hard time with this sentiment. Yes, Thayne has no responsibility to do anything for me. Yes, he has every right to tell me to go F%@& myself, and that's what it feels like he has done. To me and thousands of others who had lost there place in their world and had to find a new one. And when they did they poured their souls out to each other with messages of sadness and hope and comfort and some weird stuff too. And the hardest part for me to understand is that he went through this and knows the pain and the importance of these messages to people. If I was given a 1 hour heads up that the site was going down I would have copied all my posts and the threads that meant something to me. And I did donate to the site. And I would be willing to pay him for access to the posts, like many others here.

He may not owe me anything, but that doesn't mean I wasn't hurt by his actions. I can be simultaneously grateful for him maintaining the site and angry that he killed it.

ETA - Like everyone else I have no idea why the old board went down. I would likely be quick to change my paradigm if I had the details. I hope Thayne and his family are healthy and happy.

[Silver Girl]

I read the former SP's thread, too - I agree, there's a different feel to this board. My main suggestions would be to change the layout. Put the active, dynamic things at the top and bump things that are more static further down.

This particular topic (Support) has far too many stickies at the top before you get to the active threads. We should not have to go down to the fifth entry to look for what's actively being discussed.

The stickies at the top of Support should be bundled into one main "Rules, About, Welcome" topic in the index section. This could include basics, things that rarely change, and ongoing threads about books or other useful things. All stickies, and all administrative.

"Introductions" should be further down on the index page, or should be bundled into the Administrative topic mentioned above.

In the thread by the SP, the color was mentioned - I don't have a particular thought on that, but I do think green may be easier on the eyes. Green might also allow for more contrast in words that are not boldfaced.

Overall, I am thankful for this board, and I don't know that I could have created it at all, so my above comments are suggestions for possibly improving something that is already good and already fills a need. The main thing we are dealing with is that the board is still gaining traction, not everyone knows about it, and the loss of the historical threads (which were great) simply cannot be replaced.

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

Tapatalk support! EOM.

[SeeNoEvil]

I've been around for about 6 years. I have always said NOM was my lifesaver and like coming home. And as Linked already mentioned, "where everyone knows your name". I was excited when the new board was formed but then the excitement quickly died. I posted a lot in those first months. Now I rarely post or lurk anymore. On the old board my posts numbered over 2000. Yes, there definitely is a difference. Maybe it is because in the interrum between the old and the new many saw it as an opportunity to explore other outlets. I have thought long and hard what the difference might be ... long before this question came up. You might not like the conclusion I came up with but here it is anyway:

I'll be blunt.... I don't feel welcomed any more. No one seems to know my name. There isn't that "hello" when I come through the door like there was before. I post and rarely am I recognized. I can't imagine I am the only one who thinks this. I noticed others are not given that recognition either, when some seem to get responses all the time. If you worry about why people leave then take the time to make them feel welcomed and important when they are here. Maybe they will stick around when everyone seems to know their name. Our worlds are rough for the most part. It can be risky and scary to post and when we do it is because we want to be heard, want to matter and need support. Many of us have no support systems at home. Our loved ones don't want to hear what we have to say or maybe we're to afraid to tell them for fear of the fallout. For many we have no one to share our most deepest thoughts or fears except to the faceless presence of stranger on a board. We all want to feel welcomed. I want to feel welcomed as well and just when I think I've had enough of this board and want to leave I think of how it was on the old board and give the new one another chance. We have the potential to be great here. I am sure the last thing any of us here wants to do is to drive people away. But I for one don't know how many more chances I'll give this board before I go another way.

[alas]

The guidelines on the old board were stricter. Some I felt were too strict, but I enforced them anyway as a moderator. But I can see how someone might feel that the tone of new NOM is different. We now allow the word cult to be used to describe the church as well as TSCC and allow a bit more mocking. I see things that would have been moderated on the old board, but then I am probably trained to see them. And I must say, it is nice to have moderation be somebody else's problem.

The other thing that makes it not the same is that we lost a lot of old friends and I miss some of them. There is just a different feel to the current group. There are fewer women, and ....hard to pin down, but a different friendliness.

But NOM 2.0 is good. As long as we are not losing all newbies due to sounding too anti, I think it is more important that it be what the active posters need it to be, than that it maintains a forced respectful tone.


And I see that while I was writing this SeeNoEvil posted and does not feel as recognized or as welcomed. Perhaps that is part of what I am feeling is a different friendliness??? I haven't thought that aspect through very throughly, so I can't give specifics.

[MerrieMiss]

I signed up on the old NOM but waited a long time before I posted and even then, posted very infrequently. Mostly, I enjoyed reading the history on NOM. I would go back some amount of years, and just read. It was fascinating to see the change in tone over all, different people’s change of opinions, or the stories of people who no longer posted. I ran across NOM many times during my change of faith, even long before I was ready to be on NOM. It was amazing how many times I would google a question about church and NOM would have the answer. So I think history is a part of it.

I like the blue. It’s calming. I didn’t mind the green, but I like the blue.

As someone who didn’t post much on the old NOM, part of it was that I was just getting my bearings in my new identity, another part was that I tend to take it slow socially, even on the internet. But there were a lot of people on there who knew each other for a long time, and when I did post, I felt like I got lost and was unimportant. There were many times someone would post something and the reply would be: “We’ve discussed this already. Go check out these threads.” And it was nice to have the history to check out, but I often wondered how the original OP felt having their thoughts dismissed as old and not worthy of discussion anymore simply because it had already been discussed. With the new NOM, since there was no history I have been less hesitant to post something for fear it’s already been said since the archives are gone.

As SeeNoEvil pointed out (and I’ll say here I have appreciated many of your comments, SeeNoEvil, both old and new), sometimes there is a lack of friendliness. I’m not one of the cool kids (never have been, never will be, doesn’t matter) but it definitely makes me want to post more when I get good vibes from the community. Over all though, I think too much before I reply, so the conversation has often moved on before I ever get around to writing anything. Between that and thinking what I have to say doesn’t matter, I don’t post much. And I don’t post when my husband is around.

I also feel like there are less women here. Particularly the forums that are doctrinal. I don’t know if that is true. Many screen names don’t necessarily lend themselves to knowing. I regret choosing one that so obviously identifies as female. Sometimes I feel like there are a lot less women going through this. I don’t know if that is true or not. I don’t see why it would matter over all.

The new NOM also seems less busy, although the old NOM was slowing down quite a bit by the end.

I miss the old NOM. I liked the history. I liked and miss a lot of the people who never came back. I felt really lost when it went down even though I rarely posted. At the same time, I think there have been a few benefits to newer people like me. And I feel bad if those benefits have hurt some of the older posters. I’m not really sure what the solution is.

[Enough]

I also feel like there are less women here. Particularly the forums that are doctrinal. I don’t know if that is true. Many screen names don’t necessarily lend themselves to knowing. I regret choosing one that so obviously identifies as female. Sometimes I feel like there are a lot less women going through this. I don’t know if that is true or not. I don’t see why it would matter over all.

This so is interesting to me. And, so unexplainable, really. I have 9 siblings. I am the only female/woman (I have 5 sisters) in my immediate family going through this. My brothers are the ones who have problems with Mormonism.

My biggest issues are polygamy, "Lying for the Lord", and past/current Patriarchical practices/procedures/doctrines. I seriously don't understand why there aren't more women here, on NOM (and elsewhere), concerned about gender inequality in the church.

[alas]

I also feel like there are less women here. Particularly the forums that are doctrinal. I don’t know if that is true. Many screen names don’t necessarily lend themselves to knowing. I regret choosing one that so obviously identifies as female. Sometimes I feel like there are a lot less women going through this. I don’t know if that is true or not. I don’t see why it would matter over all.

This so is interesting to me. And, so unexplainable, really. I have 9 siblings. I am the only female/woman (I have 5 sisters) in my immediate family going through this. My brothers are the ones who have problems with Mormonism.

My biggest issues are polygamy, "Lying for the Lord", and past/current Patriarchical practices/procedures/doctrines. I seriously don't understand why there aren't more women here, on NOM (and elsewhere), concerned about gender inequality in the church.

I have noticed something everywhere on the Internet Mormon discussions. The women are disappearing. Feminist Mormon Housewives has been nigh unto dead. They went a month with no new posts to comment on. I got messages that the domain had expired and was up for sale. When a new post does go up, there are as many men commenting as women and many of them are trolls. For awhile I thought the troll problem was because it is a believing blog and men think they can come on and call the women to repentance, even though judging others is against posting guidelines. But it is a problem with the perma bloggers being less active. They just do not come back on often enough to see the troll posts, so an argument with a troll goes on for three days.

Other feminist blogs are disappearing or just less active.

I get a general sense that women are giving up on the church changing, and just discouraged. More and more are getting closer to apostate than believing but feminist. Kiwi Mormon is one example. Her posts got few and far between, and now she sounds more NOM than struggling.

If women are really starting to give up on the church and leave, one would think there would be an uptick in feminist NOMs, but it is more like the men just won as far as church and Internet go and so the women are doing what Mormon women are socialized to do, withdrawing into silence.

[MerrieMiss]

I also feel like there are less women here. Particularly the forums that are doctrinal. I don’t know if that is true. Many screen names don’t necessarily lend themselves to knowing. I regret choosing one that so obviously identifies as female. Sometimes I feel like there are a lot less women going through this. I don’t know if that is true or not. I don’t see why it would matter over all.

This so is interesting to me. And, so unexplainable, really. I have 9 siblings. I am the only female/woman (I have 5 sisters) in my immediate family going through this. My brothers are the ones who have problems with Mormonism.

My biggest issues are polygamy, "Lying for the Lord", and past/current Patriarchical practices/procedures/doctrines. I seriously don't understand why there aren't more women here, on NOM (and elsewhere), concerned about gender inequality in the church.

I have noticed something everywhere on the Internet Mormon discussions. The women are disappearing. Feminist Mormon Housewives has been nigh unto dead. They went a month with no new posts to comment on. I got messages that the domain had expired and was up for sale. When a new post does go up, there are as many men commenting as women and many of them are trolls. For awhile I thought the troll problem was because it is a believing blog and men think they can come on and call the women to repentance, even though judging others is against posting guidelines. But it is a problem with the perma bloggers being less active. They just do not come back on often enough to see the troll posts, so an argument with a troll goes on for three days.

Other feminist blogs are disappearing or just less active.

I get a general sense that women are giving up on the church changing, and just discouraged. More and more are getting closer to apostate than believing but feminist. Kiwi Mormon is one example. Her posts got few and far between, and now she sounds more NOM than struggling.

If women are really starting to give up on the church and leave, one would think there would be an uptick in feminist NOMs, but it is more like the men just won as far as church and Internet go and so the women are doing what Mormon women are socialized to do, withdrawing into silence.

This sums it up nicely.

[SeeNoEvil]

I also feel like there are less women here. Particularly the forums that are doctrinal. I don’t know if that is true. Many screen names don’t necessarily lend themselves to knowing. I regret choosing one that so obviously identifies as female. Sometimes I feel like there are a lot less women going through this. I don’t know if that is true or not. I don’t see why it would matter over all.

This so is interesting to me. And, so unexplainable, really. I have 9 siblings. I am the only female/woman (I have 5 sisters) in my immediate family going through this. My brothers are the ones who have problems with Mormonism.

My biggest issues are polygamy, "Lying for the Lord", and past/current Patriarchical practices/procedures/doctrines. I seriously don't understand why there aren't more women here, on NOM (and elsewhere), concerned about gender inequality in the church.

If women are really starting to give up on the church and leave, one would think there would be an uptick in feminist NOMs, but it is more like the men just won as far as church and Internet go and so the women are doing what Mormon women are socialized to do, withdrawing into silence.

I had never noticed any of this but I can see how this seems to be happening. And maybe the answer as to why women are silent on boards and with some topics is because of our indoctrination. I was taught to not be concerned with such "worldly" things and that is a hard habit to break. These issues would would be good topics for another thread. Priesthood, polygamy, abuse in the church, etc. we what laid heavy on my shelf for years.

As far as "What was different about the old board?" I don't think there is just one thing. Jazzing up the current NOM header might make it more attractive in the beginning but once the newbies are here keeping them is where I think we can make changes. Since I don't seem to be the only one not feeling welcomed I can see changes I need to make within myself to welcome others. And do people even know we are here? Maybe a plug here and there on other boards to spread the word? Just a thought.

[MoPag]

For many we have no one to share our most deepest thoughts or fears except to the faceless presence of stranger on a board. We all want to feel welcomed. I want to feel welcomed as well and just when I think I've had enough of this board and want to leave I think of how it was on the old board and give the new one another chance. We have the potential to be great here. I am sure the last thing any of us here wants to do is to drive people away. But I for one don't know how many more chances I'll give this board before I go another way.

((Hugs)) I remember you from the old board. I was only on that board for about 6 months before it went away. But I remember being happy to see your name when I finally found this board.

When the old board went down I was like "oh it will probably be back in a week or two." And then it wasn't. And it was week after week, and Conference happened and it suck having to deal with that alone. And then finally one day, I tried to check again and saw this board and I pulled it up as saw Korihor and Corsair and I was like "YAAASSSSSS!!!!! The board is back!! "

So I guess I wasn't on the old board long enough to tell a real difference. I was just so happy to have a place to go where people could understand the crap and crazy I've been through.

I love all of our NOM-ies. It's so fascinating to see different perspectives and different paths. And it's just so comforting to know that I'm not alone.

[SeeNoEvil]

For many we have no one to share our most deepest thoughts or fears except to the faceless presence of stranger on a board. We all want to feel welcomed. I want to feel welcomed as well and just when I think I've had enough of this board and want to leave I think of how it was on the old board and give the new one another chance. We have the potential to be great here. I am sure the last thing any of us here wants to do is to drive people away. But I for one don't know how many more chances I'll give this board before I go another way.

((Hugs)) I remember you from the old board. I was only on that board for about 6 months before it went away. But I remember being happy to see your name when I finally found this board.

When the old board went down I was like "oh it will probably be back in a week or two." And then it wasn't. And it was week after week, and Conference happened and it suck having to deal with that alone. And then finally one day, I tried to check again and saw this board and I pulled it up as saw Korihor and Corsair and I was like "YAAASSSSSS!!!!! The board is back!! "

So I guess I wasn't on the old board long enough to tell a real difference. I was just so happy to have a place to go where people could understand the crap and crazy I've been through.

I love all of our NOM-ies. It's so fascinating to see different perspectives and different paths. And it's just so comforting to know that I'm not alone.

Thanks for the "hugs". I remember you as well and happy to see you found your way home again. I just noticed your Ezra Pond quote at the bottom of your page... This line says it all! Great words to depict our journey.

[Ghost]

I wonder whether perceived changes in the tone or community are due in part to what a particular person hopes to gain from participation. I know that has changed over time for me, personally, but I've valued this site throughout.

When I first discovered NOM, it was a little much for me. The irreverence, although tame in comparison with some other places, kept me from feeling as if I would really fit in. But the reverence in other places (including church itself) also didn't allow for the types of discussions that I found helpful. NOM is currently the best place I know of for striking the right balance.

I still don't think I fit in, exactly (whatever that means), but I imagine that's a pretty common feeling and it's one that I am used to in most environments I find myself in. But I would hope that even people who never post but find value in reading the discussions here would feel as if they are part of the community, since anyone who visits regularly obviously has something in common with others here or they would not bother.

Ideally, participation here would result in real-life connections. But distance, personality, and other factors make that unlikely for many. (I am one of those.)

I was certainly happy to see this community resurrected, even if its lich form differs slightly from its mortal form.

[SeeNoEvil]

I wonder whether perceived changes in the tone or community are due in part to what a particular person hopes to gain from participation. I know that has changed over time for me, personally, but I've valued this site throughout.

Ideally, participation here would result in real-life connections. But distance, personality, and other factors make that unlikely for many. (I am one of those.)

I think you have hit on something here. I know for myself when I first came on the old NOM it was within days if not hours from my shelf crashing. I really was a walking wounded and didn't know where to go. I stumbled onto NOM while trying to search for answers. NOM was where I found hope in those dark days. There was that real-life connection you speak of. But I am a million miles from those rough times and life is much different now so I come here for different reasons and I admit that maybe that is partly why I feel a bit out of place too.

[Emower]

I know that we have had a bunch of conversations here about this board, it's purpose, it's future, and how to make it better. Participation seems to be the key. If the history, the diversity and the sheer amount of knowledge and emotion was what made the other board cool then only time and participation will build this one.

It is hard to participate though. I go through phases where I really don't want to think about the church and phases where it's fascinating to think about.
I am sure most here have had the experience where they have had to teach a hum-drum lesson in church and you have agonized over how to come at it from a different angle to make it more interesting and engaging. This is often how I feel on this board, I don't have much to add that isn't just agreeing with what people have to say and beating the dead horse. I guess I need to get over that and give my two cents anyway.