MONSON no longer going to COB.

[Rob4Hope]

Message from KSL just came through that Monson will no longer be attending the COB, but will remain home. The article made it clear this is not without precedence as it was the case with Spencer Kimball and Ezra Taft Benson.

The article also published a GBH quote that "The church has 'provisions for any such circumstances'"...."'It is important', he added, 'that there be no doubts or concerns about the governance of the church and the exercise of the prophetic gifts, including the right to inspiration and revelation in administering the affairs and programs of the Church, when the president may be ill or not able to function fully.'"

[Brent]

I give them points for admitting there are "health issues". The dude has had a longer, better run than most folks on the planet, no reason to grind him out like a finished smoke on a dive bar.

[oliver_denom]

I know this isn't appropriate, but I hope President Monson lives as long as possible, not out of compassion, but because Nelson is an insufferable prick.

Sorry mods. You may strike me down at will.

[Rob4Hope]

Isn't Nelson the one who said that the Gay Child Baptism Ban was revelation?....and then it was changed in the written release of the statements?

[wtfluff]

Honestly?

Godspeed Mr. Monson. You've done your time, and what you perceive to be your best. May you pass quickly and peacefully, surrounded by your loved ones.

[asa]

If you think it is bad now just wait for Nelson. The only worse possibility is Bednar . Oh we will of most certainly get both won't we

[Corsair]

Replace the name "Thomas S. Monson" with "Ezra Taft Benson" and this is the announcement and policy that should have been released around 1989. Instead, we had the prophet star in a live action version of "Weekend at Bernie's" for 5 years.

I also note that Pope Benedict XVI came up with the revolutionary idea of allowing the head of a divinely inspired church to retire rather than go into a protracted, painful decline. I wonder if the LDS church were considering this, but didn't want it looking like the Catholics thought of this first.

[moksha]

My youngest son sent me the link to the KSL story about President Monson no longer attending church due to the incidence of old age. He added the note, "Perhaps this should apply to you too".

In the meantime, we will be in capable hands with Presidents Eyring and Uchtdorfer running the show.

[Korihor]

So how does the membership sustain/support him as Prophet Seer and Revevaltor?

He doesn't seem to be Prophetizing, Seering or Revelating anything currently.

I can understand sustaining him as the President. He don't need no talking with Jesus to be President. But if he's not active in the affairs of the corpo... ahem... chruch, how is he the spiritual leader of a 'living' church.

Yes, I know the remaining Q15 are sustained a Prophets Seers and Revelators as well, but Monson doesn't fit that bill anymore. It's like the one and only true church is just on Standby mode waiting cause Jesus can't talk to the next guy until it's an official transition.

[Korihor]

What do the future missionaries think that have received their mission calls in the past few/upcoming weeks to know Monson was checking out about the time they got their call?

How involved was Monson?

[el-asherah]

Replace the name "Thomas S. Monson" with "Ezra Taft Benson" and this is the announcement and policy that should have been released around 1989. Instead, we had the prophet star in a live action version of "Weekend at Bernie's" for 5 years.

I also note that Pope Benedict XVI came up with the revolutionary idea of allowing the head of a divinely inspired church to retire rather than go into a protracted, painful decline. I wonder if the LDS church were considering this, but didn't want it looking like the Catholics thought of this first.

I'm not sure they would dare to change it! The church has long toted their method of succession is the way God wants it done, to change would require major back pedaling.

I suspect traditionally the prophet has to die because that is how Brigham Young became President and the Q12 took over control of the church. Before Joseph died, the Q12 was only suppose to be responsible for doing missionary work, running the church was the job of the First Presidency and the High Council.

When the prophet (Joseph) died, control was seized by the President of Q12 (Brigham Young). This method of succession got locked into the Q12 traditions of the Brighamite church. There is no revelation that says it has to be this way, but it has taken on almost revelation like status within the church.

I'm not a legal expert, but I also think it is now locked in legally. As I understand it all of the wealth of the church is legally owned by Thomas Monson alone as a corporate sole, and legally the corporate sole charter's only method to transfer the wealth to a successor is through death to a beneficiary (the president of the Q12). Maybe some resident board legal experts can pipe in here? That is not to say it couldn't be changed in the future, it just seems very hard to change.

[oliver_denom]

I'm not sure they would dare to change it! The church has long toted their method of succession is the way God wants it done, to change would require major back pedaling.

It wouldn't be that hard to change. Lawyers could handle the paperwork, and the members would laud any change as proof the Lord still guides the church through revelation. Besides, the D&C literally says that the president is anyone chosen by the body of the church. Everything else is just tradition.

The current tradition may not resemble Roman Catholicism, but it does share similarities with the Coptic Church. They have a process which involves chance. The names are selected and out into a bowl, then a child is used to pick out a name. The randomness, or chance, allows god to pick the pope. Same thing in the LDS tradition. The leadership picks 14 names, and then the randomness of death allows god to pick the prophet.

It's a good system in that both the choosing and initiation of the prophet is performed by a dead man. No one can claim political motives. Monson was chosen by David McKay (dead guy), and elevated to president the moment Gordon Hinkley became a dead guy. Anyone the president owes for his office is dead.

[Give It Time]

First the split with Scouts--which Monson never would have supported. Now, this.

[Brent]

He's getting put out to pasture, something that will become more and more common.

[w2mz]

This is what I don't get... There is such a thing as video cameras that can record and then rebroadcast said recordings. If TSM is really still sitting in council with the other Q15 only is now working from home, he should be okay to let the church membership know himself either via prerecorded message, or live news conference.

Why does it take a bold statement from the PR team and the like to let us all know TSM is A-Okay, but simply now wants to work from a lawn chair by the pool at home rather than his offic at headquarters?

Something is fishy when dear leader goes into seclusion and the PR machine covers everything up with assurances and hand waving.

[2bizE]

What do the future missionaries think that have received their mission calls in the past few/upcoming weeks to know Monson was checking out about the time they got their call?

How involved was Monson?

I'm sure this won't change much. Mission calls to serve comes from the FP. The Q12 chooses the specific mission. That is what they want us to think. I bet the mission assignments is now being done by 70s under the direction of the Q12.

I have always liked Monson. I hope he passes quickly so he can meet up with all those widows he was probably secretly sealed to.

[Not Buying It]

Honestly?

Godspeed Mr. Monson. You've done your time, and what you perceive to be your best. May you pass quickly and peacefully, surrounded by your loved ones.

Ah, here we go, when one of the Brethren gets ill or passes on we have this dichotomy between those who wish them well and say that they were only doing what they thought was right, and those who are angry because of their duplicity, their prioritization of the Church above truth, honesty, decency, and respect for the members, and the damage they have done with the organization they lead. I fall into the latter camp. While I don't wish ill on anyone, my feelings toward President Monson are far from charitable, whether he is healthy or sick, alive or dead.

I think he has a great deal to answer for when he gets to the other side. If there is any justice in this universe, he will be held accountable for what he has done.

P.S. And I think most of his stories are total made up B.S. And I could never tolerate that tone he used when speaking to us like we were all a bunch of kindergarteners. If we never hear from him again, that's fine with me.

[wtfluff]

Honestly?

Godspeed Mr. Monson. You've done your time, and what you perceive to be your best. May you pass quickly and peacefully, surrounded by your loved ones.

Ah, here we go, when one of the Brethren gets ill or passes on we have this dichotomy between those who wish them well and say that they were only doing what they thought was right, and those who are angry because of their duplicity, their prioritization of the Church above truth, honesty, decency, and respect for the members, and the damage they have done with the organization they lead. I fall into the latter camp. While I don't wish ill on anyone, my feelings toward President Monson are far from charitable, whether he is healthy or sick, alive or dead.

I think he has a great deal to answer for when he gets to the other side. If there is any justice in this universe, he will be held accountable for what he has done.

P.S. And I think most of his stories are total made up B.S. And I could never tolerate that tone he used when speaking to us like we were all a bunch of kindergarteners. If we never hear from him again, that's fine with me.

Yep, the dichotomy.

I also don't agree with his teachings. BUT... He's basically at the point where he's fulfilled his death-sentence of being "called as one of the lard's anointed." At this point, he can't even walk less than a city block to "go to work." He's a tired, frail, broken old man. As I said, let him go in peace.

I also hope there's some sort of cosmic justice in the universe. Monson will probably finding out soon, I hope it's a while before I do.

[Korihor]

I hold no ill will for TSM. Even if he is 'responsible' for saying doing a few things some of us disagree with, I still a good chunk of the blame on the institution itself. TSM or any profit of the past 50 years is not greater than the machine itself.

What I am most bothered by is this puppeting of hierarchy. Emeritus status isn't an option simply because it isn't an option. There's nothing preventing and updated intelligent policy other that tradition.

This Trib piece lays it out pretty well, methinks. http://www.sltrib.com/home/5322856-155/ ... -no-longer

[Brent]

Emeritus isn't doctrinal until it is. The beauty of bending/morphing rules...


See "Revelation of Convenience"