A different Q15 ---------- Question #4 (which actually includes three questions)

[NOWmormon]

Each day, for the rest of May, please share your honest response to each temple recommend question, based on what you believe right now.
--
#4
Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?
Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?
Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

[Nonny]

I sustain all these leaders to the same extent that GBH did - I agree that they are called such (called meaning that's their title, not that God personally chose them.). Somebody has to be the leaders, especially local leaders and I am glad it's not me.

One of my biggest issues with the church is that I don't allow any so-called priesthood leader to judge me, so I don't sit for these TR interviews. I don't think they have any actual authority to speak for God. But the corporation has given them authority to manage their kingdom.

[Just This Guy]

I have seen no evidence to show that they can prophecy see or reveal anything more than any human can by guessing. So, no.

[Give It Time]

Each day, for the rest of May, please share your honest response to each temple recommend question, based on what you believe right now.
--
#4
Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?
Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?
Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

Yes. I don't believe in the priesthood, so if they have keys to something I don't believe in, who am I to say they don't?

Anyone who can read the handwriting on the wall can be a prophet. So, yes.

Also, like Nonny said, someone has to lead this behemoth. Glad it's not me. Also, no reason it couldn't be a woman.

Also, PSR... priesthood... whatever... doesn't mean they have power over me.

[Silver Girl]

I hedged on that question very briefly when I was on the way out - for my very last TR interview. They were given those titles by the corporation, so I figured maybe there was a way for it to work for me. Maybe there was indeed a New Order for Mormonism. Even then, I knew where I was headed. After a few months, I finally admitted I simply could not reconcile the lies, the misrepresentation of the history, the ugliness of the history and the dishonesty of the overall institution with my own integrity.

I never again went through those questions; I requested a meeting with the person to whom my calling reported, and told him I could no longer sustain the leaders or answer those questions truthfully. I voluntarily gave him my TR (he didn't ask for it), and I resigned my calling. I firmly told him I do believe in God and Christ, though. I am fed up with the assumption smug TBMs make that non-members have no faith or beliefs.

[LostGirl]

Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?
Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?
Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

I know how to nuance the questions to be able to say yes but in my heart I struggle to truly sustain men who are making decisions that harm people, who continue to choose to obscure and misrepresent history for their benefit, who do not make space for honest discussion without retribution, and who continue to promote sacrificing all for the corporation among those who can't even feed their families.

[Jinx]

Nope, nope, and nope. I've always been taught that sustaining means I have to do what they say, and I refuse to do what they say when what they say is against what I believe. And I haven't seen a whole lot of prophesying, seeing, or revealing going on in SLC lately. Mainly obfuscating.

[NOWmormon]

Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?
Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?
Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

I know how to nuance the questions to be able to say yes but in my heart I struggle to truly sustain men who are making decisions that harm people, who continue to choose to obscure and misrepresent history for their benefit, who do not make space for honest discussion without retribution, and who continue to promote sacrificing all for the corporation among those who can't even feed their families.

Great post! Great points!

[Mormorrisey]

My last interview, I also echoed GBH and said they were "called as such" and that's fine. But I also added it would be nice to see them actually reveal and prophesy at some point, instead of running the church like a business. I think I'll repeat that.

I know how to nuance the questions to be able to say yes but in my heart I struggle to truly sustain men who are making decisions that harm people, who continue to choose to obscure and misrepresent history for their benefit, who do not make space for honest discussion without retribution, and who continue to promote sacrificing all for the corporation among those who can't even feed their families.

I'll debate whether to add this, because that's how I feel. Some great points, LostGirl.

It is in fact the third part of the question which was a little more challenging for me, as everyone in my immediate locale knows I think the SP is a bit of a dork. So I answered it this way; "I support them about as much as they support what I'm trying to do. Which is very little." That actually seemed to fly, so I think I'll repeat that too. Probably because they know how much the SP has no time for me either, so they'll give me that little pass.

[Corsair]

Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?
Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?
Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

No, not In any functional, reliable, dependable way. I can accept that this legal entity has these titles for the board of directors, but I see no evidence that these titles are meaningful outside of the acknowledgement of faithful Mormons.

[Rob4Hope]

I can't even nuance it.

Its one of the reasons I'm really out...all the way. I can't return--unless I lie about it.

[wtfluff]

I'm with the other's on the thread who invoke a "Prophet's" answer to the question, so as President Gordon B. Hinckley stated; "They are called as such."

They don't seem to be able to do any prophesying, seeing or revealing, but the Corporation™ has definitely given them a title that they seem to be incapable to living up to. (Just like the Corporation™ it'self is incapable of living up to any of the promises it makes.)

[Dravin]

#4
Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?
Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?
Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

No, no, and no. What's fun about this set of questions is just how plastic the idea of sustaining can be. It ranges from doing something wrong even though it's wrong because a leader wanted you to, to not flipping them off in a meeting when they say something stupid.

[Mormorrisey]

No, no, and no. What's fun about this set of questions is just how plastic the idea of sustaining can be. It ranges from doing something wrong even though it's wrong because a leader wanted you to, to not flipping them off in a meeting when they say something stupid.

Love this - In my meeting with the SP some months ago now, I used a similar line. As in, "my level of support for you right now is to not go around and tell everyone what I really think." Seemed to be good enough for him. I'm convinced at this point, that as long as one is not "public" for the disdain, you get quite a pass. I'm not on social media, I just sit and say nothing, and I post anonymously. That seems to make everyone content.

[Hagoth]

I can't think of a single thing Thomas Monson has ever said or done to even remotely qualify him for that claim, unless giving chickens to widows counts as prophesying, seeing and revelating.

That's why I also defer to President Hinkley's own definition of his qualifications:

Q: You are the president, prophet, seer and revelator of the Mormon Church?
A: I am so sustained, yes. (Laughter)

I love that he chuckles at his own answer, as if realizing that it sounds silly outside of his echo chamber

[Can of Worms]

Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?
Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?
Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

No x 3

[MoPag]

Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?
Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?
Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

No, not In any functional, reliable, dependable way. I can accept that this legal entity has these titles for the board of directors, but I see no evidence that these titles are meaningful outside of the acknowledgement of faithful Mormons.

I'm with Corsair on this one. I can accept the fact that they have given themselves man-made titles in this man-made institution they run.

I believe they are piss poor spiritual leaders. They have no real spiritual power.

[redjay]

Yes.

Much in the same way that if I went to the Loyal Order of Water Buffalo Lodge with Fred and Barney I too probs would sustain the Grand Poobah.

However, the brethren's position on social issues has me asking if I can sustain them as leaders of a church, and I do wrestle with giving them my sustaining vote in conference.

[Guy]

No to all 3.

I don't believe in the Priesthood, so I can not sustain them and I do not believe that they have the keys to exercise authority of anyone. The only authority they have is the authority that others are willing to give to them, which for me is none.

[Random]

#4
Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?

What congregation sustained the prophets in the OT and in the Book of Mormon? Does me swearing oathlike fealty make a man a prophet, seer, and revelator? If he is one, does me saying he isn't magically make him not be one? Also, show me where he has seen the future. Show me where he has prophesied. Show me what he has revealed from heaven. How can I sustain a man who has not prophesied, seen, nor revealed as a prophet, seer, and revelator - even if I had the authority from God to declare him to be that? How can I sustain a man to whom power, adoration, image, and wealth are more important than the Word of God, the poor, and the humble seekers after Christ and truth?

The church doesn't even know what a key is. A key unlocks a door. Key to knowledge, not key to boss others around, to take away common consent, to teach others to worship and honor men. Men don't pass on keys to others. If Joseph had keys, he could not pass them on because they are only to be gotten from God. And I think the word "priesthood" was tacked on to make the word "keys" sound more important.

God does what he wants. He chooses who he wants. He authorizes who he wants. I will not "sustain" that God can speak through no man but the only legal member of this church.

Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?

Show me where they have seen the future. Show me where they have prophesied. Show me what they have revealed from heaven. How can I sustain men who have not prophesied, seen, nor revealed as a prophet, seer, and revelator - even if I had the authority from God to declare him to be that? How can I sustain men to whom power, adoration, image, and wealth are more important than the Word of God, the poor, and the humble seekers after Christ and truth?

I cannot sustain men to be what they are not.

Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

Now, I can honestly say that I sustain the right all of these men (in all three questions) have to act in the callings they were given, and to run the corporation that the pres of the church owns. They have that legal right, according to the laws of the land, but their fruits do not show me that they are men of God.