Was Joseph Smith martyred, murdered, or removed from his place?

[Mad Jax]

I consider someone a martyr even if they go down fighting, depending of course on circumstance. Certainly plenty of American Indians who fought alongside Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull fit the bill as far as I'm concerned. In fact I'd say laying down and dying would probably be detrimental to the type of martyrdom they are known for. Always got to consider circumstance and context with a complicated concept like martyrdom.

[Give It Time]

I consider someone a martyr even if they go down fighting, depending of course on circumstance. Certainly plenty of American Indians who fought alongside Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull fit the bill as far as I'm concerned. In fact I'd say laying down and dying would probably be detrimental to the type of martyrdom they are known for. Always got to consider circumstance and context with a complicated concept like martyrdom.

This is very true. Your example is excellent. I was thinking of the martyrs that were burned at the stake. It's apparent Joseph knew his time was likely up, but he so badly wanted to escape... I'm looking for the words. The Native Americans knew they were toast and decided to go down fighting. Joseph didn't seem to have that mindset. He wanted out. If he could have escaped, he would have.

[LaMachina]

Joseph didn't seem to have that mindset. He wanted out. If he could have escaped, he would have

.

He did have a chance to skip town and he went back, for whatever that's worth.

[Give It Time]

Joseph didn't seem to have that mindset. He wanted out. If he could have escaped, he would have

.

He did have a chance to skip town and he went back, for whatever that's worth.

I know. Anyone remember what he said? Something like lamb to the slaughter, but was religion mentioned? If you were to ask me Joseph's cause, I'd say it was Joseph.

[Not Buying It]

Joseph didn't seem to have that mindset. He wanted out. If he could have escaped, he would have

.

He did have a chance to skip town and he went back, for whatever that's worth.

He went back, but I think it's a stretch to say he went back knowing he would die. Hyrum and Emma convinced him to go back, but I personally think the whole “If my life is of no value to my friends, it is of no value to me. Hyrum, we are going back.” quote is probably a complete fabrication. I really don't think he believed he was going to be killed.

[Thoughtful]

Joseph didn't seem to have that mindset. He wanted out. If he could have escaped, he would have

.

He did have a chance to skip town and he went back, for whatever that's worth.

I know. Anyone remember what he said? Something like lamb to the slaughter, but was religion mentioned? If you were to ask me Joseph's cause, I'd say it was Joseph.

Yes, supposedly he said this lamb to the slaughter line as he was arrested.

[Give It Time]

I concede this says martyr to me.