BYU Prof: People who leave Church deficient in "character"

[2bizE]

I think the professor is just trying to get tenure at Brigham Young University

[Margarita]

Oh my...what say ye that examine the character of Joseph Smith?

[Mad Jax]

This is something that NOMs of all stripes probably best getting used to hearing. Or something very like it.

A sure sign that somebody is on soft ground with their own belief system is the need to create motives for those who think otherwise. I don't need to create reasons why others believe something I don't, because:

a. I'm confident it's the truth
b. It wouldn't shatter my world to discover I was wrong.
c. I love to challenge my secularism
d. It's an absolute wonder and joy for me to have my mind see things from a new perspective.

So I don't let this kind of claptrap get to me. It just has no teeth to it.

[Charlotte]

I can't believe no one else has commented on this Deseret News article "Religion professors address 'why people are staying' in the LDS Church at BYU Women's Conference". Here's the link http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... rence.html.

This is the inflammatory quote:

Gardner, bringing the focus back to conversion, announced her conclusion: “Why they stay, or why they leave, is not based on circumstance. It’s based on character. It’s based on the individual. It’s based on the price they’ve paid to come to know and come to understand and come to be obedient to the teachings and the life of Jesus Christ.”

I know what I think about this quote, what about the rest of you?

I actually knew Gardner (back when she was Barbara Morgan), and she is a sweet person. I have a very hard time imagining her being judgmental. If those are her actual words, I can't imagine she uttered them with condescension or judgement. I'm glad to hear she is working with the college kids. I think they probably have a great experience with her.

I know this family and agree: good people. But I don't know any way to take this but as an insult. She says, "character." How can it not be a judgment?

[AllieOop]

Oh my...what say ye that examine the character of Joseph Smith?

So true. But they do everything they can to divert attention away from that!!

I actually like a lot of the comments after the article. I'm finding that even in the Deseret News, comments from members reveal that they are getting fed up with these types of judgmental attitudes. I think more and more members are having family members leave the church (or are having doubts and questions themselves). This is causing at least some of them to have a different attitude about those who leave.

[Mormorrisey]

I'm just trying to figure out, as a fellow academic who's had to write pages and pages of applications to try and get research funding from universities and government agencies, how she justifies this "research" to the various funding bodies that pay for such things. Seriously, this is the result of all your research? This is the conclusions that you get from all your years of studying, interviewing people and then analyzing your data? This is how BYU funding dollars are spent? Sign me up!

In all seriousness, just a bunch of nonsense playing to the echo chamber. Can't even get upset at stupidity like this.

[PalmSprings]

I can't believe no one else has commented on this Deseret News article "Religion professors address 'why people are staying' in the LDS Church at BYU Women's Conference". Here's the link http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... rence.html.

This is the inflammatory quote:

Gardner, bringing the focus back to conversion, announced her conclusion: “Why they stay, or why they leave, is not based on circumstance. It’s based on character. It’s based on the individual. It’s based on the price they’ve paid to come to know and come to understand and come to be obedient to the teachings and the life of Jesus Christ.”

I know what I think about this quote, what about the rest of you?

It's insulting and offensive. When I left the Mormon church it was literally and figuratively a LIFE SAVING decision.

[Give It Time]

You know how it is before you have children and you look at unruly children and say my children will never be like that?

That.

[oliver_denom]

Hey everyone, I've got this great definition for the word "character". I could give this definition in a 20 minute talk, but why take the time? Character means having the courage to do what's right instead of what's expected. Therefore those who leave the church have more character than those who stay.

Aren't semantics fun and productive? Totes.

[alas]

From our perspective, this is horrible. But after thinking about it, she is right about "some" people who leave the church. I have two kinds of people in my family who have left the church. The first type I think do lack character. I will pick on a niece that I really like...but yeah she lacks the character to act on her convictions. She really believes the church is true......but she likes living how she wants to live. Her reasons for leaving are all based on "I believe but don't want to bother." While I think her convictions stink more than her behavior, I still recognize that she is not living up to her own beliefs. We call such people Jack Mormons. She asked a question about the temple ceremony, and I told her I could answer her question, but it would not be faith promoting, but was the truth. She informed me that the ONLY answers she wanted were the ones that were faith promoting. She essentially ran screaming from the truth because I described the truth as not faith promoting. I see running from the truth and not living up to your own belief system as lacking character.

Then there are people like us. We have the courage to face the truth no matter where it leads or how much it hurts. I think that is real character. But I think TBMs cannot comprehend NOMs, only Jack Mormons who really do believe but lack the character of their convictions.

[asa]

So the two thirds of the members who have left or at least stopped going to church lack "character". How about the 75- 90 % or so of new converts who are inactive in a year ? Or the 50 % or so of RMs who go inactive ? It appears we are doing a lousy job selecting new converts and our missionary arm is similarly defective. Clearly it is blame the victim time.

[MerrieMiss]

But I think TBMs cannot comprehend NOMs, only Jack Mormons who really do believe but lack the character of their convictions.

What I find odd when I step back and look at myself today is that I simply can't understand Jack Mormons (I have family members who fit this label as well).Perhaps I thought I could when I was TBM, but I maybe I was just saying they were lazy and lacked character and never really understood them at all. Or maybe I was right and they do lack character. Truthfully, I don't know that I understand it at all. And I guess that's where I've ended up. The only thing I feel certain of anymore is that I don't know a whole lot and I certainly don't know the motivations for what a lot of people do.

But I've wanted to post here regarding Jack Mormons because I really don't understand them at all. It puzzles me to no end.

[achilles]

I can't believe no one else has commented on this Deseret News article "Religion professors address 'why people are staying' in the LDS Church at BYU Women's Conference". Here's the link http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... rence.html.

This is the inflammatory quote:

Gardner, bringing the focus back to conversion, announced her conclusion: “Why they stay, or why they leave, is not based on circumstance. It’s based on character. It’s based on the individual. It’s based on the price they’ve paid to come to know and come to understand and come to be obedient to the teachings and the life of Jesus Christ.”

I know what I think about this quote, what about the rest of you?

It's insulting and offensive. When I left the Mormon church it was literally and figuratively a LIFE SAVING decision.

Leaving absolutely saved my life, too.

[achilles]

From our perspective, this is horrible. But after thinking about it, she is right about "some" people who leave the church. I have two kinds of people in my family who have left the church. The first type I think do lack character. I will pick on a niece that I really like...but yeah she lacks the character to act on her convictions. She really believes the church is true......but she likes living how she wants to live. Her reasons for leaving are all based on "I believe but don't want to bother." While I think her convictions stink more than her behavior, I still recognize that she is not living up to her own beliefs. We call such people Jack Mormons. She asked a question about the temple ceremony, and I told her I could answer her question, but it would not be faith promoting, but was the truth. She informed me that the ONLY answers she wanted were the ones that were faith promoting. She essentially ran screaming from the truth because I described the truth as not faith promoting. I see running from the truth and not living up to your own belief system as lacking character.

Then there are people like us. We have the courage to face the truth no matter where it leads or how much it hurts. I think that is real character. But I think TBMs cannot comprehend NOMs, only Jack Mormons who really do believe but lack the character of their convictions.

My extended family is only made up of two kinds of Mormons: Jack Mormons who believe, but don't act; and NOMs who have made tough choices regarding whether to stay or not.

The thing is: the TBTBMs (see what I did there) have to see us as lacking character, otherwise there is a possibility it's all a sham--and that would be the end of the world. It's just easier to write us off. Whatever floats their boats, I guess.