Michael Ash -- Bamboozled book

[Rob4Hope]

This effing makes me want to use exmormon reddit language. I am so sickened by not only the suggestion, but the allegation that we "critics" are wrong, unenlightened, lazy, etc. when we don't accept such absurdities as this little gem from dear Brother Ash's CES Letter defense:

Let’s suppose, first of all, that the critics are right
—Joseph copied the KJV passages directly from his Bible. How might this have happened?

Here’s one scenario: Joseph Smith is translating the Book of Mormon and comes across passages that were also
recorded in the Bible. Joseph realizes this either on his own, or through inspiration, or from a voice on high. "Hey, I know this p
art" Joseph might have said to Oliver. Hand me the Bible. As he looks over the Biblical verses he says to his scribe: Well, we know that the
Bible is the Word of God, so let’s stick with the way it’s expressed in the scriptures to make sure I get this right.

The absurdity goes on to describe, not other possible explanations, but how THIS explanation could be credible.

And the critics are the f***ing problem????

I hate the F word, but I don't know what else expresses the level of anger and near hatred that my mind spews when I come upon crap like this. Not only do jack***es like this insult the intelligence of a flea with such manure, but because TBMs would much rather be comforted that correct, the apologists get away with it!!

Well, alas, I'm so glad to know that our poor little, uneducated, didn't even own a bible at the time (according to other apologist responses), Joe was such a biblical expert that he recognized the Isaiah verses and knew he could skip getting actual direct inspiration from God and just copy from the inferior "as far as it is translated correctly" bible.

Your points are well taken with me.

Just reinforces my original points above--the truth is smeared so badly, so far, that to even have a conversation about it with a TBM apologist is insulting and maddening. The command: "Thou shalt not lie"...is meaningless to these people. They twist and nuance things to the point of being unrecognizable.

[Hagoth]

I think the title is kind of funny. Is "bamboozled" a better descriptor of someone who:
-believes that a book was translated from gold plates using a magic rock
- and that those plates can't be seen because an angel took them back
-abhors any hint of sexuality but easily overlooks the outrageous sexcapades of their founders
-pays 10% of their income to an organization that claims to have the only saving ordinances - at a price
-believes an Egyptian papyrus is the the autobiography of Abraham, even though it has been proven otherwise
-believes the Garden of Eden was in Missouri
-is willing to give years of their life, at their own expense, prostelityzing for the institution
-believes in a vast ancient empire that defies archaeology and every other indicator that supports the existence of all other ancient empires
-thinks it's perfectly fine to turn away children because of the life choices of their parents
-believes that the first Americans arrived in submarines packed with animals and lit by glowing rocks
-believes that God is a leveled-up man who lives at the center of the universe near a star named Kolob
-must promise a man of authority behind closed doors that they are correctly wearing special, secret masonic underwear night and day
-beilieves they have the secret masonic handshakes that will be their passport into heaven
-believes an old dude in Salt Lake City is the only true prophet, seer and revelator of God even though he has never performed such deeds
-and so on...

or is "bamboozled" a better descriptor of someone who:
-stopped believing all of that stuff and now expects such claims to be supported by evidence and/or logic

[Korihor]

I have a copy of Shaken Faith Syndrome.
Before my shelf broke and I was unknowingly loading up my shelf, I obtained a copy of this book. It didn't have any affect on me at the time as it answered questions that I wasn't asking. I just thought, that's an odd book, it justifies supporting the Book of Mormon but I already know the BoM is true. Maybe this was written for non-members.

Later, when things came crashing down, I recalled this book and how absurd it is.

If anyone wants to see its insanity with your own eyes, I'll mail it to you. I'm getting ready to do another purge. PM me if interested.

Bring it to the meeting sunday (If I remember who you are Korihor). I'll take it...and read it. I want to see what the book says. I just don't want to pay for it.

Did someone say there is a pdf out there for it?....I'll google it and see.

I live inPhoenix, I was just visiting family in SLC that time we met. PM me your address and I mail it to you if you want.

[moksha]

I think the title is kind of funny.

What if he changed the name to Deprogrammed?

[20/20hind]

I heard somewhere that he is married to a General authority's daughter.?

Ive seen some of his posts on Facebook. Pretty horrible logic from him.

[Rob4Hope]

I have a copy of Shaken Faith Syndrome.
Before my shelf broke and I was unknowingly loading up my shelf, I obtained a copy of this book. It didn't have any affect on me at the time as it answered questions that I wasn't asking. I just thought, that's an odd book, it justifies supporting the Book of Mormon but I already know the BoM is true. Maybe this was written for non-members.

Later, when things came crashing down, I recalled this book and how absurd it is.

If anyone wants to see its insanity with your own eyes, I'll mail it to you. I'm getting ready to do another purge. PM me if interested.

Bring it to the meeting sunday (If I remember who you are Korihor). I'll take it...and read it. I want to see what the book says. I just don't want to pay for it.

Did someone say there is a pdf out there for it?....I'll google it and see.

I live inPhoenix, I was just visiting family in SLC that time we met. PM me your address and I mail it to you if you want.

Oh...ok. I got you confused. No worries anyway...I found a PDF.

[Rob4Hope]

I saw a YouTube from Ash about the "horses" in the BoM. It was hilarious. He waffled and smeared every line, talking about "chariots"...but no mention that anyone ever rode in one, etc.

What?

Hunh?

You know, I've heard the same type of logic used by guys like Hales where he talks about Smith not having sex with the women he married BECAUSE there is no proof....like children being born, or a steamy diary written by someone where they talked about how JS did it with them.

Hillarious....and totally dishonest.

[Hagoth]

I saw a YouTube from Ash about the "horses" in the BoM. It was hilarious. He waffled and smeared every line, talking about "chariots"...but no mention that anyone ever rode in one, etc.

BoM apologists would have you believe a "chariot" is either this (but with a tapir):


or this:



The problem is that the Book of Mormon appears to be talking about actual horses and chariots

Alma 18:9 And they said unto him: Behold, he is feeding thy horses. Now the king had commanded his servants, previous to the time of the watering of their flocks, that they should prepare his horses and chariots, and conduct him forth to the land of Nephi; for there had been a great feast appointed at the land of Nephi, by the father of Lamoni, who was king over all the land.

12 And it came to pass that when Ammon had made ready the horses and the chariots for the king and his servants, he went in unto the king, and he saw that the countenance of the king was changed; therefore he was about to return out of his presence.

If we are to follow the apologetic lead, these people were strapping travios to tapirs or deer or they were, for whatever reason, taking herds of tapirs or deer along with them (as pets?) whenever they traveled in sedan chairs, but totally unrelated to the mode of travel.

When I brought this up on the MD&D board I was pummeled with pictures of reindeer pulling sleighs and demands that tapirs really are domesticable. Even if that were true, and I have as yet to see any evidence that tapirs have ever been used as beasts of burden in any significant sense (and why would they quit doing it the minute Europeans showed up?), is there really any reason to assume that pulling a travios behind a tapir is a better transportation option than just walking? Especially in a jungle with a very limited road system?

[fh451]

When I brought this up on the MD&D board I was pummeled with pictures of reindeer pulling sleighs...

Wait, your kidding right? As in Santa Clause?? That really helps their case!

fh451

[Hagoth]

When I brought this up on the MD&D board I was pummeled with pictures of reindeer pulling sleighs...

Wait, your kidding right? As in Santa Clause?? That really helps their case!

fh451

That's exactly what I said!

[Hagoth]

I believe the Tooth Fairy travels by tapir

[Korihor]

I saw a YouTube from Ash about the "horses" in the BoM. It was hilarious. He waffled and smeared every line, talking about "chariots"...but no mention that anyone ever rode in one, etc.

Do you have a link?

[Rob4Hope]

I saw a YouTube from Ash about the "horses" in the BoM. It was hilarious. He waffled and smeared every line, talking about "chariots"...but no mention that anyone ever rode in one, etc.

Do you have a link?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCCT7MfEE4k

It doesn't take long to get to the drivel...

[Korihor]

I saw a YouTube from Ash about the "horses" in the BoM. It was hilarious. He waffled and smeared every line, talking about "chariots"...but no mention that anyone ever rode in one, etc.

Do you have a link?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCCT7MfEE4k

It doesn't take long to get to the drivel...

Dammit, now my head hurts. I was having such a nice day I until my brain bent over backwards listening to that. I know better.