The Church and a Demon-Riddled World

[moksha]

The Church flourishes the best in a demon-riddled world. Agree or disagree and why?

[crossmyheart]

Agree.

There are endless boogey-man inspired stories to tell. Good vs Evil, Stay-in-the-boat kind of fodder. It is so easy to tell all kinds of ghost stories- and the confirmation bias just seals the deal. I really believe it is this kind of superstition that keeps many doubters in the church.

[fh451]

Oh, absolutely! First they create the problem, then they offer you a solution, then they take your money.

fh451

[Rob4Hope]

Agreed....as long as the church can present the deamon-riddled world in a way to create fear and ensure that "they" are the solution.

Read a book by a guy named Stephen Cramer. Here is the reference:

Cramer, S. A. (1992). Putting on the armor of god – how to win your battles with satan: Springfield, UT. Cedar Fort Inc.

He gets into numbers and has several quotes. It appears (from him) that a SAFE estimate of devils is about 30,000,000,000. And, out of those, it takes a very few if any to control the already wicked world. So, the vast majority of devils are focused exclusively on the LDS people

so, say there are 15,000,000 LDS members (which as we all know includes everyone, including those who are no longer active and haven't been for year...but just for argument, there are 15,000,000. Now say 20% are under-age. So, you got 12,000,000 members. And say 29,000,000,000 demons with nothing better to do than follow LDS people around and tempt them to look at porn and masterbate (what is this world coming to!).

That leaves about 2,400 demons per every member.

THIS IS THE LOGIC this guy has in this book, and he zips up the argument pretty tight with quotes from GAs that support his position.

Oh yeh...boogiemen everywhere....

[Corsair]

Satan got mentioned several times in the last General Conference. He's still a convenient source of temptation for Mormons.

[Obadiah_Dogberry]

Yes, absolutely agree. I went to church yesterday for the first time in months and perhaps the 3rd time in a year. The further I extract myself from the church the more I marvel at the worldview held by most of the members. Danger, unhappiness, sin, demons are EVERYWHERE. I was shocked by the testimonies that were shared and how the church saves them from these demons.

DW recently asked me what my biggest issue with raising our kids i the church was. In the past I would have railed on the sexism, racism, truth claims, etc. But this time I just said that I want my kids to be healthy and happy and that the best way to do that is to understand and engage the world around them, and that the church does not and can not do this. Things always have to be getting worse in the "dark and dreary" world.


Pointing this out to believing DW has been one of the best ways to get her to think more critically about the church. There are SOOOO many measurable indicators that show the world is getting better ( https://www.vox.com/2014/11/24/7272929/charts-thankful ) but this is never mentioned at church.

[redjay]

yes, having an enemy - the ultimate enemy helps.

As does a persecution complex.

Amazes me the way members interpret the 'difficulty of being a mormon' as evidence that they are on the right path.

No, the reason is difficult is because it is boring, time consuming, expensive and requires mental rigidity in the face of reason - and depending where you are it requires societal conformity that is suffocating, or you are an anomaly in a non-mormon society.

[Hagoth]

That leaves about 2,400 demons per every member.

This idea that the demons are focused specifically on Mormons is verified by at least one GA reference that I can think of. Vaughn J. Featherstone, in a letter to Simon Southerton after he left the church, told him that if he feels like he's happier now, or that a weight has been lifted from him, it's because the evil spirits that were assigned to him have been reassigned elswhere, having succeeded in their conquest of Southerton.

I think the church's most powerful tool is convincing people that there is danger all around and the only thing keeping them safe is obedience to the church and its leaders. They have indoctrinated this fear very deeply into the membership.

[Mad Jax]

That leaves about 2,400 demons per every member.

This is why the best Mormons shop smart. Shop S-Mart!

[Hagoth]

That leaves about 2,400 demons per every member.

This is why the best Mormons shop smart. Shop S-Mart!

[RubinHighlander]

Cramer, S. A. (1992). Putting on the armor of god – how to win your battles with satan: Springfield, UT. Cedar Fort Inc.

That leaves about 2,400 demons per every member.

Yup, read that book and even used it in lessons ( sorry all those youth that I tried to strike fear into using BS like this).

I'd say fear via the evil unknown has and is the COB's number one tool, but I also noticed this past decade or so the big 2nd coming doomsday talk was being dummied down at the top, but is still very much alive at the local level.

The last conference was riddled with dummy down talks on the miraculous. I also heard a rumor recently that the Church now has a 10-20 year plan to phase out the one true church claim, which is the number one issue for many members based on a survey.

If the COB continues on this path of backing off all their truth claims and turn into another small Unitarian Christian faith, perhaps they do have a retirement plan in play. It will be interesting to see this and other subtle changes; maybe the missionary program will see some adjustments as they continue to find evidenced that the surge of younger blood in higher numbers is not paying dividends.

[Rob4Hope]

The last conference was riddled with dummy down talks on the miraculous. I also heard a rumor recently that the Church now has a 10-20 year plan to phase out the one true church claim, which is the number one issue for many members based on a survey.

Prey tell good brother.....this is quite interesting....

[LaMachina]

Mormonism makes us all heroes of our own little space opera. Every hero's journey requires a bad guy. The problem with flesh and blood bad guys (for instance, gays or depending on your generation, maybe catholics?) is you can eventually meet them and realize - wait a minute...this guys are actually great!! Why are they the bad guys again??

Bad guys that exist entirely in your own mind and who are responsible for every "bad" impulse you've had and will ever have are much more effective.

[moksha]

... who are responsible for every "bad" impulse you've had and will ever have are much more effective.

Sounds like you are describing "Morrighan, the Temptress" who has starred my many of my nightly dreams. Glad she was not gay or Catholic in those dreams!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Udo3T2ritOE