Why shouldn't I resign?

[desertrat]

I've posted on here and the previous forum from time-to-time, but have not been very active here lately. Life's busy and my interest in all things Mormon has been on a serious decline lately. For a quick update, after a long and lonely transition (for which NOM was a life-saver) we moved out of Utah a bit over a year ago, and I took that opportunity to dramatically reduce my involvement in the church. My wife was still all-in at the time, but she has since transitioned as well. I haven't attended church in over a year now, and my wife stopped attending about 8-9 months ago. We are "out" to most of our family and some of our friends, and we have recently started attending a UU congregation occasionally.

I haven't ever really felt the desire to officially resign until recently, and now I am strongly considering it. I think that part of it is that we just moved (same area, just new house...and presumably a new ward). I'd rather not have any contact with the new ward, and it seems like resigning would be the easiest way to accomplish that. A second part is that I now feel a moral/ethical desire to not be associated with what I now see as an abusive institution. A third part is that, in the unlikely event that I loose the local leadership lottery, and someone there decides they don't like something I say online or whatever, I don't want to be subject to the abuse of a disciplinary council. I'm really not very vocal on FB or anything, so I don't think this is likely...but who knows?

My parents are jack Mormons, and they've never been to the temple. My brothers are some shade of NOM, but we don't really have much of a relationship. With that being the case, "eternal family" fallout with my side of the family is a non-issue. I think that probably the major thing that has me hesitating is that my wife probably isn't quite ready to take that step yet. She said that she wouldn't be bothered if I resigned, and that it does sound tempting to her in that it would simplify her relationship to the church...but for various reasons I don't think she would resign if I took that step now. Our oldest was baptized about a year ago, and the others have been blessed so I guess that makes them "children or record."

Is there any scenario involving local church leadership that it may be in mine or my family's best interest if I were still a member? For example, suppose home teachers, primary president, EQP, etc. want to come visit. If I politely tell them to take a flying leap will they be more likely to actually leave us alone if I'm a member? Would they be more likely to leave us alone if I resigned? Any other scenarios I should consider?

If I do go forward with it, are there any pros/cons to using quitmormon.org vs doing it the tedious old-fashioned away aside from convenience?

[Hagoth]

I certainly understand why some people resign and why some people stay. It generally has more to do with how it will effect your home life.

A third part is that, in the unlikely event that I loose the local leadership lottery, and someone there decides they don't like something I say online or whatever, I don't want to be subject to the abuse of a disciplinary council.

This is always in interesting question. It seems like some leaders want to be extra nice to you in hopes that you'll come back while others are eager to cut out the dead wood. If it ever came to a disciplinary council I doubt very much that I would show up. Let them hold their little kangaroo court and decide what they want. I see potential nobility in all options: staying (even if just to show that it's your choice despite what anyone thinks), leaving on your own terms, or getting kicked out for not being what they think you should be. I have come to the conclusion that if I was summoned for a court of love I would probably send a pizza delivery boy in my place with a stack of pizza and a note saying "Thanks for thinking about me."

[MalcolmVillager]

Good question. I say follow your heart. I don't know what I would do if I felt no pressure to stay for family. I don't mind being a member but if I were distant and people bothered me I would consider it.

Sadly, none of that matter for me now anyway. I don't think I feel a need to remove records evendors though I would change my activity if I could.

[20/20hind]

In the eternal perspective of a tbm, resignation should be the best option.

Think about it. You resign from the church for non belief. You live your life the way you want to live it. Then you die. 1 year after you die some tbm family member can baptize you by proxy and everything is great again.

But if you didnt resign you will be placed outside if the celestial kingdom.

From the gospel perspective as it relates to family, resignation is the best option for the non believer who has left, and the tbms who are left to necro dunk you after you die.

Its a special thing in the gospel called the apostate loop hole. Not as cool as the second anointing, but close.

I resigned and got my scare tactic letter from the church saying that it will cancel temple blessings and baptism.

They said that if i desired to return to talk to my bishop and get an interview. Then i could get everything back.

What they failed to mention was that my family could do the same thing after im dead.

They always leave the good parts out...

[Emower]

In my experience once you tell people you lost your testimony and you think Joseph made it all up, they typically leave you alone anyway. So resign or not resign, sounds like a wash either way to me.

[blazerb]

I have come to the conclusion that if I was summoned for a court of love I would probably send a pizza delivery boy in my place with a stack of pizza and a note saying "Thanks for thinking about me."

What a great idea. Show love to the court of love.

[Corsair]

I have come to the conclusion that if I was summoned for a court of love I would probably send a pizza delivery boy in my place with a stack of pizza and a note saying "Thanks for thinking about me."

What a great idea. Show love to the court of love.

Good idea. In "The Art of War", Sun Tzu states:

Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him.

If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.

I'll bring donuts if I am ever hauled before the high council. We have plenty of stories of people boldly standing their ground during these meetings and it always ends in an emotionally dead stalemate. The stake president makes it clear that the issues are not on trial, the apostate's activity and soul are on trial. But donuts could change the tone of the meeting immediately.

I should also bring a jug of milk, cups, and napkins.

[Hagoth]

Think about it. You resign from the church for non belief. You live your life the way you want to live it. Then you die. 1 year after you die some tbm family member can baptize you by proxy and everything is great again.

I have heard it taught that you have one shot and if you reject the church once you are outcast forever. This is what we were taught in the mission field when people changed their mind about baptism. It's a horrible concept and I don't think there's any authoritative background to support it.

BUT, this topic is a great example of how the church edits the teachings of prophets to support their current needs (in this case the need to keep everybody holding recommends and paying tithing if they want to belong to an eternal family). Consider what Joseph Smith said in August of 1943: "when a seal is put upon the father and mother, it secures their posterity so that they cannot be lost but will be saved by virtue of their father and mother" (The Words of Joseph Smith, 242).

This was soundly confirmed by Brigham Young: "they are bound up to their parents by an everlasting tie, and no power on earth or hell can separate them from their parents in eternity" (Journal of Discourses 11:216)

And, just to add a third witness to the first two prophets of this dispensation, Lorenzo Snow reiterated the doctrine again in 1893 General Conference when he told parents of children who had strayed from the church that they will " get all [their] sons and daughters in the path of exaltation and glory. This is just as sure as that the sun rose this morning over yonder mountains" (Collected Discourses 3:364-65).

In the mid 20th century Joseph Fielding Smith tried to walk this doctrine back, claiming that 'belonging' to parents and being "saved," "not lost," and inseparable by any powers on earth or hell doesn't really mean anything beyond the right to still call someone a son or daughter despite being eternally separated from them. Smith started teaching this doctrine about 20 years before he ascended to the prophet throne.

So here we have the same apostle, who prophesied that man will never walk on the moon and taught that dinosaur bones are leftovers from other planets, overwriting the words of the Man Who Communed With Jehovah and other prophets who clearly stated otherwise in General Conference. Par for the course.

[Grace2Daisy]

I have come to the conclusion that if I was summoned for a court of love I would probably send a pizza delivery boy in my place with a stack of pizza and a note saying "Thanks for thinking about me."

Having sat in HC meetings, and courts of love for 14 years of church service, having pizza delivered would be a high, and welcomed, point of the meetings.

I struggle with bothering to resign. I know the visual it sends to the COB about the numbers of those resigning, but frankly I simply don't care. I know they strongly look at the sacrament meeting attendance, and I know a SP will fudge those numbers because of the need for higher yearly budgets (not to mention many wards).

What will the future bring? If another other off the wall announcement like the one in Handbook 1 which mandate Church discipline for same-sex couples, and also updated Church policy impacting their children occurs, we will contact one of the many attorneys assisting members in resigning in a New York heart beat.

[RubinHighlander]

There's two reasons I didn't take my name off the books. The first was that in my resignation letter to my SP and my Bish, I used my membership as a leverage point that if we felt we were being harassed with efforts to get us active, I knew my legal rights and would make the move to fully resign and have my name removed.

Second reason is that neither my TBM mom and DW's TBM mom are aware of our inactivity. They will find out someday but for now we've determined it's better that way. DW's mom does a lot of family history stuff and I don't know if the family search apps show membership status or not, but we wouldn't want her to find out that way just in case they do.

Other than those two reasons, in my mind, nothing else matters and I just don't care. If I'm one more number on their books it doesn't make a dent in the fact that all the Mormons, active or inactive, make up less that a half a percent of all the World's population. It's not the fastest growing, it's barely a blip on the radar. That's pretty pathetic when you consider that it should probably be, if it's the one true faith. Stone cut out of the mountain that will roll over the whole earth...more like tiny little rock just bounced off the windshield and didn't even make a scratch. That's a pretty cruel joke on humanity and not a good example of a loving father if less than 1% of his kids get to hang out with him in the next life. And, after all that, it's likely that less than 144,000 will have ever received the 2nd anointing, which is the super duper VIP key to heaven's diamond club.

[GoodBoy]

Desertrat, I think if I was in your shoes, that I would resign. I wouldn't do it to prove anything to anybody, or to "stick it to the man", but I would primarily do it for myself as a sort of ceremony like a marriage, or a funeral, or a divorce, that would help you to move on mentally and perhaps spiritually. Sometimes it may be best to just do it, feel the hurt or joy, or whatever there is there for you, and then let it go and move on.

For me personally, it would hurt too many people I care about for something that has no meaning and therefore wouldn't be very kind.

[2bizE]

My thoughts are I wouldn't resign until both you and your wife are ready to do it together. Part member families might get extra attention and visits.

[PalmSprings]

Great question and one that most NOMs struggle with. Fascinating that there is a wide array of responses. It really comes down to what makes you feel at peace. My personal choice has been not to resign for a couple of reasons:

1. I don't see any great advantage from resigning. I'll still be on a list, the list of people who have resigned. It's not like I can hit a delete button where my name doesn't even show up anywhere. In any case someone somewhere is looking at my name on a computer screen, its the 21st century. But it is an invasion of privacy nonetheless.

2. The whole point of the resignation process is so they can guilt trip you and try to manipulate you once more. So instead of giving them the satisfaction of trying to convince me to stay, It's my way of taking control of the situation. So severing all contact is my way of protecting myself from further abuse and humiliation. I've moved a couple of times since I attended. If I were to contact the local leadership to resign, I would start getting bombarded with "welfare" visits. Nope better to just lay low.

In the end there is no right or wrong choice. As each person needs to do what makes sense for them. If I may, my belief is that God is not going to judge NOM's so harshly. The teaching that those that knew the truth, then "reject it" will not be saved doesn't apply 100% to all "Mormons," as TBMs would make you want to believe. (i.e. if you take the discussions, hear someone bear their testimony etc. you are already condemned if you don't accept it) In the first place I don't believe that getting baptized is an act of knowing, but one of faith that you are doing the right thing. In addition if you never receive confirmation of the truth and your world is caving in, then rejecting it is a logical step. A loving and understanding god would not condemn someone for acting with good intentions on the information they received, even if it meant leaving his church. We are all human after all, and not all knowing. Otherwise he would be a stupid and illogical god for judging people just because they heard a "testimony" or got baptized to test the theory.

[desertrat]

Thank you all for taking the time to offer your thoughts. I enjoy the diversity of perspectives you all brought. I've been thinking it over seriously for several weeks now and I just submitted it to QuitMormon.org. As GoodBoy said, I'm ready to move on and I can't see myself ever regretting it. If so, can you imagine what a cool testimony I could bear if I had resigned and then was re-baptized. Rock start status!

I appreciate the sentiments, PalmSprings. At this point if I had to call myself something I suppose agnostic would be the most correct. I think that my interest in the question of the existence of God has declined steadily and I've become more concerned about living a good life and not spending too much time worrying about questions that ultimately I don't think will ever be answered. Your comments made me think of a song that has become very meaningful to me lately and makes me cry almost every time I listen:

http://www.npr.org/event/music/50251165 ... d-feelings

I love the lines:

When my body won't hold me anymore
And it finally lets me free
Where will I go?
Will the trade winds take me south
Through Georgia green or tropical rain
Or snow from the heavens?

Will I join with the ocean blue
Or run into the savior true
And shake hands laughing
And walk through the night
Straight to the light
Holding the love I've known in my life
And no hard feelings

If Jesus was anything more than a apocalyptic magician, and there is a loving god, then I can envision us "shaking hands laughing." I can get behind and hope in that Jesus, but not the Jesus that would have his leaders call someone in for a disciplinary council for not overlooking sexism, racism, homophobia, seeking comfort instead of truth, etc. I don't want anything to do with that Jesus anymore.

[Korihor]

desertrat

Thank you for this post. My mother just called my husband and I and asked us not to ever resign. Thus this thought has been on my mind lately. I appreciated all the thoughts and needed to hear them. I also LOVED that song you shared.

Thank you!

[Red Ryder]

desertrat
Thank you for this post. My mother just called my husband...

I thought YOU were the husband??

Congrats on the progress desertrat. It's a decision not taken lightly. If members actually knew how much thought and effort goes into these things.

[Misbehaved Woman]

Shoot!! I was logged in as Korihor. That last post by him was really ME.

[2bizE]

Shoot!! I was logged in as Korihor. That last post by him was really ME.

I love the husband wife combo. Not enough of that here on NOM.

[Can of Worms]

I think you will know when the time is right. DH and I haven't resigned for two reasons: 1) we don't want to hurt our extended TBM family; and 2) I can't be bothered to do it. Just like I can't be bothered to answer the door when the missionaries knock. But, the fact that I'm not motivated to jump through the hoops right now doesn't mean that I won't be motivated to in the future.

[Newme]

... If I were to contact the local leadership to resign, I would start getting bombarded with "welfare" visits. Nope better to just lay low.

Good points.

It's difficult to be involved and keep your mouth shut - at least it is for me. Not that I was going around being a NOM missionary, but I did talk to a couple of people - people who ended up being really close (like married) to a future bishop. Then, that bishop put me on their bad list (you know they have files for everyone - and a little like red flag that says they can't serve in callings etc.). I was asked to help out here & there - but nothing major. In a way, it's bad because I worry about gossip - (though I wouldn't want to invest in that type of person anyway)... and in a way it was good because it helped maintaining boundaries easier.

In the end there is no right or wrong choice. As each person needs to do what makes sense for them. If I may, my belief is that God is not going to judge NOM's so harshly.

It's taken me a while to deprogram the distorted belief that only TBMs are approved in God's eyes.
"God is no respector of persons." God doesn't care if I'm Hindu, Mormon, Muslim, rich, poor, famous or not... God looks on the heart.
I used to think that sin was about drinking caffeine, coffee or alcohol etc... Now I realize that sin is about one's heart. Cruelty is more evil than smoking a cigarette. So, when it comes to any sense of judgment day, I consider the accounting to be more based on how much one loves others as self, than how many boxes one can check off on a religious eternal list of obligatory shoulds.