Dear Brethren, I've got an idea!

[Red Ryder]

I've got a great idea to solve two of the most concerning problems the Brethren have.

What is the problem you ask?

The church is losing the youth and those that stay are not getting married. What if we could correlate the loss of youth and delay in marriage to garments? Here me out. This isn't just another rant about garments.

What if we did a survey that provided data to the brethren that shows:

1. The youth don't want to wear funny underwear from the 1800's.
2. The funny underwear from the 1800's is causing the youth to not be sexually attracted to each other, therefore they are not getting married.

The data will prove all of this and the solution will be obvious. Change it so that wearing garments is only required while in the temple!

The returned missionaries will be attracted to the young ladies shoulders. Shoulders will lead to attraction. Attraction will lead to dates. Dates will lead to marriage. Marriage without garments will lead to better sex! Better sex will mean an increase to babies. Babies will grow up to be Mormons. Mormonism will thrive again like in the 1960s. Zion will roll forward like a ball of yarn cut out of a fabric store!

Mormon couples will look and act normal. The neighbors won't see the funny underwear on the strange couple stocking wheat in their garage. The neighbors will be curious and wander across the street and ask about the wheat. The Mormons will explain food storage, make jello, and invite the neighbors over for dinner. Sister Smith's garment free shoulders will attract the attention of the neighbors who will inquire where she got her lovely tank top. The neighbors will develop a strong bond of friendship. This new friendship will blossom into something special. Something special will blossom into a weekend getaway in San Diego. Missionaries in San Diego will look out of place riding their bikes on the boardwalk talking to tourists. The neighborly couples will meet the missionaries and the spirit will be felt as long as the missionaries arent looking at Sister Smith's shoulders, knees, or cleavage. The couple will take the discussions, read the Book of Mormon, and get baptized!

The church will flourish. The church will grow. The church will roll forth and cover the earth until the Savior, even Jesus Christ himself comes again to usher in the millennium!

[Emower]

Lets add twerking to the ym/yw curriculum and we have a recipe for success!

[MalcolmVillager]

I think you are on to something RR. The singles ward in our stake is like the land of misfit toys. I know under the Prarie dresses and suits they are still horn singles who would jump each other if they had some more dangled carrots. Shoulders, cleavage, thighs oh my!

[wtfluff]

It's all about the shoulders. Oh My!

[No Tof]

I've got a great idea to solve two of the most concerning problems the Brethren have.

What is the problem you ask?

The church is losing the youth and those that stay are not getting married. What if we could correlate the loss of youth and delay in marriage to garments? Here me out. This isn't just another rant about garments.

What if we did a survey that provided data to the brethren that shows:

1. The youth don't want to wear funny underwear from the 1800's.
2. The funny underwear from the 1800's is causing the youth to not be sexually attracted to each other, therefore they are not getting married.

The data will prove all of this and the solution will be obvious. Change it so that wearing garments is only required while in the temple!

The returned missionaries will be attracted to the young ladies shoulders. Shoulders will lead to attraction. Attraction will lead to dates. Dates will lead to marriage. Marriage without garments will lead to better sex! Better sex will mean an increase to babies. Babies will grow up to be Mormons. Mormonism will thrive again like in the 1960s. Zion will roll forward like a ball of yarn cut out of a fabric store!

Mormon couples will look and act normal. The neighbors won't see the funny underwear on the strange couple stocking wheat in their garage. The neighbors will be curious and wander across the street and ask about the wheat. The Mormons will explain food storage, make jello, and invite the neighbors over for dinner. Sister Smith's garment free shoulders will attract the attention of the neighbors who will inquire where she got her lovely tank top. The neighbors will develop a strong bond of friendship. This new friendship will blossom into something special. Something special will blossom into a weekend getaway in San Diego. Missionaries in San Diego will look out of place riding their bikes on the boardwalk talking to tourists. The neighborly couples will meet the missionaries and the spirit will be felt as long as the missionaries arent looking at Sister Smith's shoulders, knees, or cleavage. The couple will take the discussions, read the Book of Mormon, and get baptized!

The church will flourish. The church will grow. The church will roll forth and cover the earth until the Savior, even Jesus Christ himself comes again to usher in the millennium!

...... and when you awoke from this dream, how depressing was the reality of the whole situation?

[Corsair]

The church will flourish. The church will grow. The church will roll forth and cover the earth until the Savior, even Jesus Christ himself comes again to usher in the millennium!

I'm trying to figure out if the cult of garment wearing is deliberate or just accidental inertia. Most Mormons hold literal beliefs over the importance of the temple garment. Hasidic Jews wear an outfit featuring a round furry hat that was last trendy in Poland in the 1930s but has since become the symbol for extreme orthodoxy. Mormons are more subtle with having garment seams show up under clothing, especially under white shirts on Sunday.

In my cynical moods, I think that the LDS church really would like to grow. Their growth is real, but anemic, and surely they could liberalize a bit in the interest in gaining converts. But I am increasingly convinced that LDS leadership is more interested in conserving the exclusive, committed core of conservative believers that fill the ranks of leadership at both the general and local level. Orthodox Mormons that are willing to maintain wearing the garment provide an easy virtue signal to other Mormons. It's far too useful to risk liberalizing.

[Korihor]

and there's this

Warning - Facts of life

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... _garments/

[Give It Time]

and there's this

Warning - Facts of life

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... _garments/

Actually, after I miscarried, I was only able to use a certain type of feminine hygiene product. I'm told my situation is fairly common. Anyway, during those days, I didn't wear the bottom half, at all. Here's how it happened​.

You're bloated, anyway. The last thing you want to do is wear two layers. This also makes some pants unwearable. My former husband suggested that I was actually "defiling" the garment by not wearing it correctly and I might as well not wear the bottom half. Fine by me. We did discuss whether or not it's appropriate for me to wear only the top half on those days. We decided that it was a matter of living the commandments as best I could to wear the top half only on those days.

Now, this isn't as beneficent or sneaky as it sounds. My former husband would then shame me on those days because I was only wearing half my garments. I felt terribly guilty for the longest time. One day, there was a thread on fMh about this and I was mightily relieved to learn that what I did was pretty common practice.

[Corsair]

Actually, after I miscarried, I was only able to use a certain type of feminine hygiene product. I'm told my situation is fairly common. Anyway, during those days, I didn't wear the bottom half, at all. Here's how it happened​.

You're bloated, anyway. The last thing you want to do is wear two layers. This also makes some pants unwearable. My former husband suggested that I was actually "defiling" the garment by not wearing it correctly and I might as well not wear the bottom half. Fine by me. We did discuss whether or not it's appropriate for me to wear only the top half on those days. We decided that it was a matter of living the commandments as best I could to wear the top half only on those days.

So, it appears that women in the church are unintentionally initiated into a cult of garment accommodation. Whether by menstrual cycle, pregnancy, or medical condition, virtually every LDS woman has to privately struggle with figuring out how to wear these Pharisaic signals of LDS virtue in some of their most difficult personal circumstances.

Whatever progressive accolades that the LDS church might attract from the Relief Society or the thousands of hours spent in church work, this is counterbalanced by all faithful LDS women being forced to wear underpants designed by men. I'm can't claim to be a feminist, but millions of faithful LDS women wearing these insane undergarments seems like a capital jerk move on the part of LDS leaders. Changes to the garment always seemed to be grudgingly granted and always presided over by someone holding the priesthood, not experience in designing clothing.

[Red Ryder]

So how do we force the church to change? I'm serious here.

If enough social pressure can be applied we know they will change.

For instance, if enough investigators complained and stated that they wouldn't join because the underwear is weird, the church would change. The problem is investigators don't learn this until AFTER they join.

Teenagers might have an idea of their future wrapped in polyester, but by the time they go through the temple, the mission peer pressure is pushing them into the polygamy panty platoon. Same for non-mission serving newlyweds.

What if garments were to suffer a public relations nightmare? Like a mass garment removal day. Imagine two tents set up at Pioneer Park. Thousands of people in line. Media cameras and helicopters whirling above. One by one, or as a couple, ward, whatever, people walk into the tents and remove their garments. They walk out and toss them into a giant pile of cotton, polyester mesh, and caranessa fabrics while the smell of sweat permeates the air and the occasional brown stain of celestial wedgy becomes noticeable to the naked eye. Imagine enough garments piled so high that the Salt Lake Fire Department has to call in backup units to prevent a giant avalanche of fabric onto the corner of 300 S and 400 W. From the top floor corner offices, the First Presidency can watch as the pile of garments begins to rival the Tower of Babel.

In the event that nobody cares what kind of underwear Mormons wear, maybe we can get the garment sewers union to go on strike. In all seriousness, why don't the members go on a underwear strike? How many members actually like to wear garments and are not embarrassed by them? What do we need to do to change the church? Social pressures aside, it's just plain crazy!!

[document]

I have no issue whatsoever with the garment. I didn't mind wearing them at all, in fact, I *liked* wearing the garment. I found it a beautiful religious symbol.

That said:

* I did _not_ like the fact that when my ex-wife went to a BBQ after the pool two people commented on her lack of garments (board shorts and her swimming suit)
* I did _not_ like the fact that someone commented on my lack of a Mormon smile when I switched from nylon mesh to cotton poly
* I did _not_ like the fact that you are asked every other year if you wear them all the time, night and day
* I did _not_ like the fact that everyone has different rules, and that people judge others for their personal rules
* I did _not_ like the fact they are required to wear

[nibbler]

The returned missionaries will be attracted to the young ladies shoulders. Shoulders will lead to attraction. Attraction will lead to dates. Dates will lead to marriage. Marriage without garments will lead to better sex! Better sex will mean an increase to babies. Babies will grow up to be Mormons. Mormonism will thrive again like in the 1960s. Zion will roll forward like a ball of yarn cut out of a fabric store!

Yes. That's it. Keep going. Keep going. You're almost there!

Forget g's. What would happen if they dropped those ridiculous bans on coffee and tea?

[Silver Girl]

So how do we force the church to change? I'm serious here.

If enough social pressure can be applied we know they will change.

For instance, if enough investigators complained and stated that they wouldn't join because the underwear is weird, the church would change. The problem is investigators don't learn this until AFTER they join.

Teenagers might have an idea of their future wrapped in polyester, but by the time they go through the temple, the mission peer pressure is pushing them into the polygamy panty platoon. Same for non-mission serving newlyweds.

What if garments were to suffer a public relations nightmare? Like a mass garment removal day. Imagine two tents set up at Pioneer Park. Thousands of people in line. Media cameras and helicopters whirling above. One by one, or as a couple, ward, whatever, people walk into the tents and remove their garments. They walk out and toss them into a giant pile of cotton, polyester mesh, and caranessa fabrics while the smell of sweat permeates the air and the occasional brown stain of celestial wedgy becomes noticeable to the naked eye. Imagine enough garments piled so high that the Salt Lake Fire Department has to call in backup units to prevent a giant avalanche of fabric onto the corner of 300 S and 400 W. From the top floor corner offices, the First Presidency can watch as the pile of garments begins to rival the Tower of Babel.

In the event that nobody cares what kind of underwear Mormons wear, maybe we can get the garment sewers union to go on strike. In all seriousness, why don't the members go on a underwear strike? How many members actually like to wear garments and are not embarrassed by them? What do we need to do to change the church? Social pressures aside, it's just plain crazy!!

RR - you are enjoying this too much. You have us worried.

But, since you posted the topic - even though I hate the garments & even though I have resigned, it would take way more than that for me to think the church was anything other than crazy. What about the arm-waving and chanting in the temple? What about the Mystery of the Disappearing Tithing Money? What about the blessings of cleaning the toilets? What about when all those teenagers who would (according to your theory) jump at the chance to stay in the church learn a bunch of relatives can't come to their "wedding" in the temple? What about the 20-40 hours a week they'll spend as adults doing meaningless callings?

All of those things (ALL of them) would have to change, plus a few more and a huge apology and a refund of my tithing. Then I might consider it. Maybe.

In the meantime, I would definitely show up at a Burn the Garment Protest March. I'll have to borrow some Gs, but it would be worth it.

[Red Ryder]

I just got off the phone with Elder Oaks.

He just politely said, "what else will we control the members with?"

The more I think about this, the more I realize that Joseph Smith was a fncking genius! Sacredly add people to live a higher doctrine (polygamy) while secretly setting them apart with special marks on their frontier underwear. Once everyone finds out, teach the members that they too can receive special blessings and make it into heaven with a handshake. Never mind this doctrine got him killed! Then continue like it's revelation from God All Mighty! Fast forward 180 years and the doctrine and rituals have changed by ending polygamy and pantomimed throat slashing, yet the frontier style underwear doesn't change. It merely splits in half to become two piece and the arms and legs shrink 6 inches and the butt flap disappears.

If the initiatory shield can go away inside the temple, why can't the garments disappear outside the temple? It's that simple.

Elder Oaks just called back to clarify our phone conversation. He said, "you realize the purpose of the garment is to control the members, right?" I said, "uh, yeah it really appears that way..." He politely interrupted and said, "it really works! Our members will even mow their lawns in those things! Gotta go, my tee time with Elder B (Bednar?) is in 5 minutes and he gets really grumpy if I'm late!"

Then he hung up.

[20/20hind]

If your church dictates what underwear is sacred...you maybe in a cult like movement.

[JustHangingOn@57]

I'm just throwing this out there, but what about a tattoo in place of garments? The church could come up with a meaningful symbol that represents one's commitment to the saviour. Like a lamb, or a fish, or something. One over you left breast, one over your knee, etc. Talk about a conversation starter with a potential convert!

[2bizE]

I'm just throwing this out there, but what about a tattoo in place of garments? The church could come up with a meaningful symbol that represents one's commitment to the saviour. Like a lamb, or a fish, or something. One over you left breast, one over your knee, etc. Talk about a conversation starter with a potential convert!

Great idea. I'm considering getting the marks tattooed on my body...then I won't have to wear garments.

[2bizE]

This breaking news just in to Channel 2 News about a public relations nightmare for the Mormon Church...it appears several faithful Mormon's undergarments have burst into flames. We are joined live by Pat Schatzke from the University Hospital Burn Center. Pat, what can you tell us? Well, Jim, Mormon garments are catching fire. The undergarments are spontaneously combusing while doing normal daily activities such as walking, mowing the lawn, or selling essential oils. Investigators do not know for sure, but believe it could be the cheap fabric made in China. Stephen Kelly's wife, Joy Ann, was severly burned. Stephen joins us now live from the Burn Center. Stephen, we are sorry this happened to your wife. What can you tell us? Well, my wife was pushing our daughter in a stroller, with the twin boys strapped to her back, when her garments just burst into flames. She was able to set the boys down on the lawn, and the neighbor sprayed her down with water from the garden hose. This saved her live. I can tell you, I will no longer wear garments. They can kill you. I wore the cotton kind. My wife wore the silky smooth type that makes it easier for her to slide off her garments underneath the sheets...sorry, I guess that was TMI....Everyone, please do not wear them or you may end up burned like my wife. Thank you Stephen, and again we hope your wife has a speedy recovery.
We now go live to Temple Square where a member of the Quorum of the 12 will address us. Elder Oaks, what can you tell us about these incidents?
I can tell you they are false. Garments do not burst into flames for just any reason. Please people, remain calm and do not remove your garments. If you do, you will go to hell. So, Mr. Oaks, are you suggesting the reason people are catching fire is because the end of the world is near? No. I am not suggesting that. I am suggeting that people catching fire is not because of the garments, but is because they are sinners. Perhaps they are homosexuals, or look at porn on the intraweb. Our freedom of religion is being threatened. Please do not remove your undergarments members. Stop sinning and repent.
Thank you Mr. Oaks for your comments. Will the Church be providing any statement or apology? No. The church neither offers nor solicits apologies.
Thank You Mr. Oaks.
If you are just joining our broadcast, Mormon garments are spontaneously catching fire causing severe burns. If you wear Mormon undergarments, please remove them and stop sinning.
Now, let's go out to Phillip Pastori on the weather porch to hear the 7-day forecast...

[wtfluff]

Great idea. I'm considering getting the marks tattooed on my body...then I won't have to wear garments.

I did this long ago.

Used super-special-spiritual ink, so you can only see my marks with your "Spiritual Eyes".

(Maybe I should make up a "witness" statement, and sign some folk's names to it...)

[Corsair]

Great idea. I'm considering getting the marks tattooed on my body...then I won't have to wear garments.

I did this long ago.

Used super-special-spiritual ink, so you can only see my marks with your "Spiritual Eyes".

(Maybe I should make up a "witness" statement, and sign some folk's names to it...)

I have seen a number of tattoos on my apostate friends. Let's be clear that I have no interest in ever getting a tattoo. But with some of the jokes I have seen inked into people, having four suspiciously masonic symbols tattooed into strategically significant locations is bound to happen at some point.

But it won't be me.