Church or Marriage

[TheRunningmom]

Yeah, the paucity of resources for such a large problem is very troubling. Those two links were to Ensign articles by regular Joe Members, one was "name withheld", they weren't guidance from the Brethren. Elder's Oaks paltry comments are heartbreaking in terms of the grossly inadequate leadership response to a tremendous amount of pain in member's families. They don't give a crap about our pain, and I am furious about it.

I guess the question then, is, if it's printed in the Ensign, can we assume the Q15 approve of the message?

Either way, I totally agree with you. There are no good answers from the leaders. If anything, we get told to stay faithful and obedient and we'll be blessed, even if it takes until eternity.

[tryingtogetitright]

IME, the mixed faith marriages that survive, figure out what they still share, and focus on that. Sort out the values that you still share. Many couples end up surprised at how little they newly disagree about, when they go looking for what they share.

And use Kristy Money's Mixed Faith Workbook to help you through the issues.

My position is that the partner who wants out ought to do the work to get there. They should move out. They should file. They should move into the extra room. That they have no right to threaten or try to manipulate. More importantly that the other spouse should NOT react to any of that manipulation or threats. If you want to start attending another church just tell her and do it. (The 1 Cor scripture is pretty clear that if she divorces you for doing it, she is not following her own faith.)

[Give It Time]

I'm surprised I'm suggesting this, but I've seen you've posted about the WofW and the temple. I'm pretty sure I recognize you from NOM 1.0 and I'm going to respond bearing in mind that information.

You're wife has said freedom or her. You love your wife and, I'm guessing by your recent posts, you're staying in the marriage. This is something for you to consider. I don't think she realizes this, but you're staying in the church for her places upon her a huge karmic debt. This is what I suggest you do and I do not condone your doing this in a punitive manner.

1. Go to the temple. Have her listen to those covenants.

2. Read this post from fMh. Read the long version. You'll see Instructions on how to do it in the post.

http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org ... t-version/

I recommend you not judge it. Just read it and consider that is probably our doctrine.

3. Visit with your bishop. You may want to discuss what is in that essay. Don't say where it's from. Just confirm whether or not that's how he interprets the temple.

4. Visit the bishop with your wife. Discuss how you hold the priesthood and you preside. Set a date to go to the temple again.

5. Go to the temple.

6. Sit her down. Remind her of her covenants. State plainly that returning to church for her places her in your emotional debt. She may see she's in the right, but doing something solely for her places her in your debt and I don't think she can reasonably deny that. Every cup of coffee you don't have, every penny you pay in tithing. Every second you spend involved with the church in any way, places her in your debt. Emotionally and spiritually (because you hold the priesthood and she has covenanted to obey you), she has absolutely zero power. None. If you return to full activity, then she cannot badger you, cajole you, browbeat you, manipulate you. She must only say complimentary things about you to your face and behind your back.

It may be tempting to go overboard with this, but if you do, you swing the pendulum in her favor. You must be kind and you must be fair. If she breaks this arrangement at all. All bets are off and you can resign from the church, that day, with no further grief and recrimination from her. You can do this, because she has placed herself in your debt by p!acing this demand on you.

If she wants you in the church, that means she obeys you.

[Vlad the Emailer]

Life is too short to be miserable. Compromise in a mixed faith marriage is a lot of work and emotional energy. It's more than an agreement to do this or not do that. It's managing continuous failed expectations set up by the church. I've been doing this for way too long. 12 years now and it's exhausting. Deep inside I've often wondered why I stay and try to make it work. At first I was afraid we would get divorced. Lately I'm afraid we won't get divorced.

RR, change the 12 to a 10 and that's exactly where I'm at. Some days it seems untenable, other days less so.

I think I spend too much time waiting for THE event that will be the catalyst to shatter the glass house. So far, it's been ground hog's day over and over. It IS exhausting.

I am too chicken crap to grow a pair and face it because I don't want to lose my marriage, or do I and I'm just too chicken crap to face that fact?

Wow, I am right there with you two, right down to the timing. And I especially relate to this:

At first I was afraid we would get divorced. Lately I'm afraid we won't get divorced.

A few years ago when DW asked if I wanted a divorce and without even thinking I blurted out "No" I considered it a sign that I must love and value her enough that my subconscious answered the question for me. Now, however, I don't necessarily agree with that subconscious response.

Among the reasons I wonder if we should have gone our separate ways is how often people find their true love on their second marriage. It happens so often it almost seems more common that those that find such happiness in their first and only marriage. However, having said that, I was given the excellent advice on the old board that if you are going to weigh marriage vs divorce, consider divorce as meaning you will be alone, because you could end up that way, no matter what has happened to others.

Rebel, there is a ton of great advice here and I don't think I can add much. I'll just say that although she is an unquestioning believer that is definitely pissed about my disaffection, my DW appears to be more patient and relaxed about things than yours. I really feel for you. Good luck NOM friend. We're all pulling for you!

[Newme]

She is choosing the church over me but if I go am I doing the same thing ?????? I am very interested in the CofChrist church have studied it on line etc etc . Need feedback ASAP !!!!
Thanks...

I admire that even in the midst of this emotional roller coaster ride, you're able to consider her perspective.

You asked for feedback, so I'll just say what came to mind after reading your situation.

Religion has some good and some bad - but it's all subjectively limited - illusional. I see it as kind of like a board game - people get all caught up in the "rules" and insist on playing it THEIR way, but really, the most important thing is that it brings people together. If it draws them apart, then it's not fulfilling its purpose. No matter what church you go to, you'll find "problems" - things you don't agree with, people that annoy you etc. Since you love your wife, and began this journey in the lds church, why not just hang out with her a little each week - and bring a good book (on your phone which can look like scripture reading ).

I don't even believe in orthodox Christianity anymore, yet I still go to church with my DH & kids for the 1st 2 hours. The 3rd hour is mine - sometimes I help if needed, but otherwise, I leave. I support DH and sit by him & my kids some of the other time. Occasionally, I skip it all together & go to another meeting - but that's rare. Do you think something like that could work if you thought & prayed (& told your DW you did) about it?

Basically, Rebel, I'm asking you to consider stage 5... http://www.psychologycharts.com/james-f ... faith.html

[Rebel]

It might work Newme but she also demands regular Temple attendance something I am not willing to do ! I think it is weird and Creepy.

[Give It Time]

It might work Newme but she also demands regular Temple attendance something I am not willing to do ! I think it is weird and Creepy.

Earplugs.

[Newme]

It might work Newme but she also demands regular Temple attendance something I am not willing to do ! I think it is weird and Creepy.

Tough, & I agree with you, & I also see the temple used to make money & divide families. I don't go anymore & my DH sometimes gives me guilt trips at times (the rare occasion he goes) but gradually, it's less so. My temple is nature now, just like Moses, Jesus & Nephi.

My guess is she's bluffing. She loves you - is used to you after all of these years. Explain to her how much you love her & want this to work, so compromise is essential. Explain how you're willing to sacrifice & how you hope she will. Expect kicking & screaming (her style), and roll with the punches as much as you can. Just as she has a right to ask things of you, you have a right to ask things of her - marriage (with or without religion) works based on compromise.

I hope the best for you. Maybe pray & meditate before you talk with her, & pray with her - might help.

[Rebel]

***** Update she has decided to let me out of temple attendance as I demanded so it's not as bad as it once was!!!!!!!!!! I still look forward to someday joining cofchrist.