This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:40 pm
I wonder what the consequences would be if you didn't have a current recommend. At that point what is left to "get" you with? Disciplinary council and disfellowshipment? Released from your calling which you probably don't want anyway?
I think I'm a bit unique. In my situation, the BP already knew I had issues. We hadn't attended for a 5 weeks or so, I don't have a calling, and Mrs Kori recently asked to be released as a Primary Teacher and currently has token calling on RS activity committee. A TR is the only weight they have on us.
Again, the BP shouldn't be surprised that we're the ones doing this. We were already on the fringes as it is.
Side note, I am really curious how things went for 2nd and 3rd hour and what everyone did behind us that saw our hands go up. It's all just so exciting!
You guys are amazing!! Seriously that was awesome!!
Korihor wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:09 pm
In the car ride home, I tell Mrs Kori about my conversation with the BP and she is livid the first thing he thinks to do is take away our TR's. To her this is confirmation this church is as messed up as she feared.
So messed up that he went for your TRs right away. It just shows the church really doesn't care about it's people.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound
I would be curious to know if anyone from the ward contacts you, because of their own disbelief. You know (beyond a shadow of a doubt-snark) there has to be some in all wards. Towing the line for appearance, or keeping the peace. For me, it's about not breaking the parent's hearts. I don't tow the line, but I don't live in the same stake, so it's not hard to hide; just a sin of omission. Dishonest for protective reasons. At least that's what I tell myself.
I'd also be curious if anyone tries to win you back to the righteous side. Now you are the "one." The one sheep who needs to be brought back.
I'm impressed. You did this bravely, without the, "Ha sucka, eat crap" attitude.
Anon70 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:24 pm
My TR expires soon and I've been toying with the idea of being honest. Like, "I need a recommend to do my calling/be at family functions but I'm not a believer like I used to be." And then see what they do.
But now I think that means no TR and I don't know how I feel about it. Yay to get released but bummer as it will potentially impact my family and my ability to support them at the temple.
Also I live in a very Mormon place. Could make things awkward if it were to get around. But sheesh, lying is better? Cause that's what I'll have to do in the TR interview.
I just had my TR interview and I told them I didn't know when it came to me sustaining them. I told them I had been reading and they said the temple would be the best place for me to get answers. So they signed it!
Bloodhound98 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:02 am
I just had my TR interview and I told them I didn't know when it came to me sustaining them. I told them I had been reading and they said the temple would be the best place for me to get answers. So they signed it!
Awesome!
Always been the good kid, but I wanted to know more, and to find and test truth.
Just had a chance to read through this entire thread (busy week here in Silver Girl's Land of the Free and Resigned). Fantastic thread!
Well done, Brother Korihor! Being a lady person, I must monitor my words. However, I agree with those who have said you are indeed blessed with very impressive spherical accessories.
.
. Silver Girl is sailing into the future. She is no longer scared.
Bloodhound98 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:02 am
I just had my TR interview and I told them I didn't know when it came to me sustaining them. I told them I had been reading and they said the temple would be the best place for me to get answers. So they signed it!
Culper Jr. wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:57 pm
So without even finding out what the issue specifically is, they ask for your TR? This just irritates the crap out of me about the church. They ask if any are opposed, and if anyone is, the first thing they do is ignore or punish the person who answers the question they asked! Why do they even bother to ask?! If they don't want to deal with anyone potentially opposing, why ask the question?
I applaud your effort Korihor to demonstrate that all is not well in Zion.
I think this is a terrific point. My niece-in-law asked, around the time Ordain Women was making waves, asked on her Facebook page what doctrinal basis did the participants in the match have for saying women should have the priesthood. She's a member of my family, I love her and want to be a loving aunt, so I answer her question. I started with the most faithful examples from the Bible and then go to the Nauvoo period. In the process, I realize my answer is so good, I unintentionally outed myself as a feminist. She has been very cold to me, ever since. I'm sure it wasn't intentional on her part, but I now feel like that was entrapment. I know it wasn't, but feelings aren't always logical.
The only way she could have gotten a thorough and respectful response--which she requested--was by someone who at least sympathized with the cause providing the answer. So, she asked the question and now I'm on her blacklist for answering. I don't know. Maybe I should be grateful.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren
A temple recommend became really unimportant for me pretty soon after I had an awakening to the BS the church puts out. That seemed to be a weird thing to take your recommend for if he knew about the other issues you have.
I expected to hear something by now, but... crickets. What does a NOM have to do around here to attract attention?
The only thing is one of our good friends in the ward text me to say Howdy and say we should get together soon. I don't think the message was in any way related to our vote.
I email the BP today and copied Mrs K, BP1C and BP2C. I was polite and basically explained we why we vote opposed (we support the individuals but not all their decisions). I told him how much we appreciated him and the ward and how hard this decision was.
20/20hind wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:13 am
I don't understand why they don't just change the policy of sustaining votes.
When people vote no tbms get all fired up and pissed off. If they don't want to hear any no votes don't do it anymore. Because everyone knows that it's just a formality. The practice makes meetings longer and intensifies the extreme boredom.
Exactly! They should just make it an announcement.
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.
Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK
Minor update. We Met with the bishop after the block for almost an hour. It went pretty good. Really, he was just trying to get an idea what we're thinking. He never brought up retrieving our TR's. He said he actually respected us for the courage to do it, even if he doesn't agree. He knows that would take a lot. He knows this is very important to us otherwise we just would have left.
It was a very open and amiable conversation. More than anything else, he says he just wants to help us however he can, and I believe he's sincere.
He did say the SP wants to talk with us as well. I don't expect much different.
Korihor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:02 pm
Minor update. We Met with the bishop after the block for almost an hour. It went pretty good. Really, he was just trying to get an idea what we're thinking. He never brought up retrieving our TR's. He said he actually respected us for the courage to do it, even if he doesn't agree. He knows that would take a lot. He knows this is very important to us otherwise we just would have left.
It was a very open and amiable conversation. More than anything else, he says he just wants to help us however he can, and I believe he's sincere.
He did say the SP wants to talk with us as well. I don't expect much different.
I've had similar experiences with local leadership. What he means by help you however he can, is "help you see your erroneous ways and repent". I do beleive they are sincerely trying to do right in their own paradigm of thought. I'm glad he didn't bring up the recommends.
I hate to be the paranoid one here, but as Five g finger said they are trying to help "within the scope of their paradigm ". This could include their loving responsibility to protect the good name of the church and help you repent through the very loving process of a COL.
I'd advise caution whenever dealing with anyone who clams the authority of judge in Israel.
The members of your ward saw your statement, the good word is out there. Going any further could make your lives complicated.
Perhaps that is your point.
Thanks for always making my day interesting.
Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and right doing, there is a field. I'll meet you there.
Rumi
Yesterday was Stake Conference and we repeated our vote.
Really, not much to report. It was a little unique holding stake conference on Easter, but whatevs.
We opposed the 1Pres, Q12 and all GA's. We sustained all local leadership positions. The guy presenting the vote simply said "Noted" in a calm yet defined voice when we raised our hands. It appeared he marked something down on his paper, but I am not sure. There was no other reaction from anyone in the congregation or on the stand that I am aware of. For our Stake Conference, the honorary guests were the Phoenix Mission President and Spouse and Phoenix Temple President and Spouse. We think the Stake was notified by our BP that we would probably vote opposed if we showed up, so I think they more or less weren't surprised much.
The rest of the meeting was pretty normal. Most of the talks revolved around Jesus, Resurrection/Atonement with standard mormon flavor. Nothing really super awesome or controversial. About 1/2 way through, I noticed one brother to my left was looking at me/us. I didn't get the impression he was giving us the stink eye, it just seemed he was looking at us like "Why?"
We didn't stick around after it ended, as our son was being watched by the neighbors while we attended and we had to get back to relieve them. It was a birthday party for the neighbor boy and our son is a good friend. We couldn't take him away from the party to sit for 2 hours in church and miss his friend's party. Lucky the neighbors were very kind to accommodate us. Basically, they know we are people "that go to church" and that's about it. They have no idea of our struggle with religion.
Per our meeting last week with the BP, he mentioned the SP would like to meet with us. Now with this act in Stake Conf, I'm waiting for the pending appointment.
Korihor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:59 pm
Mrs Kori and I plan to vote opposed at our ward conference this Sunday to all GA's, Q12 and 1Presy. I might try to get a video recording of it.
Also, our stake conference is in 3 weeks and we plan to do the same.
but bummer as it will potentially impact my family and my ability to support them at the temple. 
