Son preparing for mission

[Unendowed]

I just want to vent a little bit.

My wife and I are semi-active non-believing Mormons. If it were up to me, we would be totally out but we live in belly of the mormon beast and my wife is worried we would be outcasts of our community if we went full apostate. In addition, both sides of our families are uber TBM and she doesn't want to cause a stir in the family. So for now we just play along. We have a nearly 18 yo son who has just started attending church regularly. He has always hated our ward and we never made him go. He has always been wishy-washy on a mission and gave us the impression he was not going on a mission. We've told him we'll support him either way but in my heart I really did not want him to go. All of this changed a few months ago when his girlfriend said she would never marry anyone who is not an RM. She wasn't even a serious girlfriend​ but that made him realize what an outcast he'll be in our culture if he doesn't go on a mission and that pisses me off! He has now talked to the bishop and is working on getting ready to go this summer. The other things is all his friends are starting to get their mission calls and of course it's​ a huge production on social media so that adds fuel to his fire. I know if he were to go to college for a year and get a year of adulthood under his belt he would feel less pressured to go. I think a mission might could be good for him as far as learning some life lessons but the indoctrination that I know he'll be subjected to makes me want to vomit. I hate how the church is pressuring these kids to think their worth is contingent on serving a mission and the culture that requires the kids go right out of high school. They are way too young. I'm feeling very frustrated.

On a side note, a friend of mine who is in a SP said the mission president in his area told my friend that he doesn't want any more 18 yo missionaries. They have too many problems and don't know how to work. They are sending about 1/4 of them home.

[GoodBoy]

On a side note, a friend of mine who is in a SP said the mission president in his area told my friend that he doesn't want any more 18 yo missionaries. They have too many problems and don't know how to work. They are sending about 1/4 of them home.

I told my son that I want him to attend a year of school before he can make a decision to go on a mission. I will pay for his mission if he still decides to go after attending a year of school. If he leaves before that time, he will have to find his own financing.

[Red Ryder]

Many in my ward are deciding to do a year of school first. The parents are supporting this too.

[Unendowed]

In my area if you don't go right out of high school you're assumed to be a porn "addict."

[Newme]

... I hate how the church is pressuring these kids to think their worth is contingent on serving a mission and the culture that requires the kids go right out of high school. They are way too young. I'm feeling very frustrated.

It is a difficult and complex issue.

On the one hand:

• As Jewish Dr. Laura said, LDS missions are good for getting young adults being more compassionate at a time when they are usually self-centered.
  They're taught high standards - parents generally don't have to worry about them partying, getting someone pregnant, etc.
  In a way it's an extension of parenting - teaching work ethic and discipline.
  They learn to get along with people - especially companions they're with 24-7, so then marriage is potentially more workable.
  The church is very convenient socially - including acting as match-maker and mission does tend to give them more dating/marriage options.

On the other hand:

• (As you mentioned) they get indoctrinated with teachings that are not all good - some are very dysfunctional - and they're preaching this daily.
  There are other ways of learning compassion - like Peace Corp and other humanitarian organizations.
  Discipline and work ethic can be learned while getting paid - in summer jobs etc.
  International experience is also possible in work or study abroad programs, or braving it on one's own.
  Is social convenience really such a good thing? Maybe we appreciate people more when we realize how rare and REAL they are.

I'm thinking to sell other options like humanitarian work.
But ultimately, once they're adults, it's up to them, but I have said that I won't pay for their missions - though DH might disagree.

[Enoch Witty]

This thread describes my worst nightmare. All the feels for you, friend.

How does your son do with arbitrary authority figures? With rules that serve no apparent purpose? If he's a rebellious or individualistic type, you may be able to subtly undermine his desire to go without outright stating your hostility to it. (Which, of course, would only push him directly into a mission, because he is 18ish.)

Best of luck.

[fh451]

This is a painful situation, and I can identify. I've had two kids go on missions, one coming home early. Your son is right in recognizing that non-RMs are indeed social outcasts in Mormon society, and that is exactly the way the leadership wants it! So if he wants to participate in that arena in the future, he is, unfortunately, going to have to go. My advice would be: be supportive, but let him know you are willing to do whatever needs to be done to help him while he is out there - in or out, stay or leave, you're behind him. You have no qualms about bending mission rules as far as talking on the phone or email any time he wants to. He'll get bombarded with some serious brainwashing, so warn him about the MTC indoctrination machine and remind him that he's an adult and his own man. They don't have any power over him that he doesn't want to give them, and he is a volunteer that doesn't owe them anything. Any time a mission president, zone leader, or companion is being a jerk, he can tell them to stuff it because he's a volunteer and follows his conscience, not some made up BS rules. I don't know how mature and self confident your son is, but the more self confident the better. If not, tell him to lean on you guys.

Anyway, I wish you and your son the best!

fh451

[20/20hind]

This is a painful situation, and I can identify. I've had two kids go on missions, one coming home early. Your son is right in recognizing that non-RMs are indeed social outcasts in Mormon society, and that is exactly the way the leadership wants it! So if he wants to participate in that arena in the future, he is, unfortunately, going to have to go. My advice would be: be supportive, but let him know you are willing to do whatever needs to be done to help him while he is out there - in or out, stay or leave, you're behind him. You have no qualms about bending mission rules as far as talking on the phone or email any time he wants to. He'll get bombarded with some serious brainwashing, so warn him about the MTC indoctrination machine and remind him that he's an adult and his own man. They don't have any power over him that he doesn't want to give them, and he is a volunteer that doesn't owe them anything. Any time a mission president, zone leader, or companion is being a jerk, he can tell them to stuff it because he's a volunteer and follows his conscience, not some made up BS rules. I don't know how mature and self confident your son is, but the more self confident the better. If not, tell him to lean on you guys.

Anyway, I wish you and your son the best!

fh451

That is some great advice! I'm sure I will have some of my kids want to go. I will explain this same thing to them. I think they don't realize that they are volunteers. And they are an adult who don't have to put up with poor behavior towards them.

As far as paying for it. I'm kind of waffling on what to do. I have resigned and really don't want to spend a dime on anything to do with the church. And they are adults who by choosing to go on a mission are making an adult decision that requires an adult bank account.

At the same time I don't want to alienate my kids by refusing to pay. I think I just need to have conversation with my tbm spouse. She doesn't work, and I support her choice not to. So I'm the income source for the family. I will encourage them to pay for it themselves. I saved and paid for the majority of the mission expense.

[fh451]

That is some great advice! I'm sure I will have some of my kids want to go. I will explain this same thing to them. I think they don't realize that they are volunteers. And they are an adult who don't have to put up with poor behavior towards them.

As far as paying for it. I'm kind of waffling on what to do. I have resigned and really don't want to spend a dime on anything to do with the church. And they are adults who by choosing to go on a mission are making an adult decision that requires an adult bank account.

At the same time I don't want to alienate my kids by refusing to pay. I think I just need to have conversation with my tbm spouse. She doesn't work, and I support her choice not to. So I'm the income source for the family. I will encourage them to pay for it themselves. I saved and paid for the majority of the mission expense.

I ended up paying for one of my kids missions. There was a time when I planned to refuse to do so, but I came to a realization that refusing out of spite wasn't a good idea. Eventually I decided to do it for TBM DW's peace of mind. It was a gesture of good will to her and I think it was appreciated, though it was financially stressful. Second son got help from his grandpa because he wanted to leave before DS #1 was back, and I told him I wasn't paying for two at once. Long story short, turns out DS #2 came home before DS #1.

fh451

[redjay]

IS he aware of the church's complicated history? If not, he deserved to know so he can make in informed decision on whether he wants to sell it for two years of his life.

[Give It Time]

This is a painful situation, and I can identify. I've had two kids go on missions, one coming home early. Your son is right in recognizing that non-RMs are indeed social outcasts in Mormon society, and that is exactly the way the leadership wants it! So if he wants to participate in that arena in the future, he is, unfortunately, going to have to go. My advice would be: be supportive, but let him know you are willing to do whatever needs to be done to help him while he is out there - in or out, stay or leave, you're behind him. You have no qualms about bending mission rules as far as talking on the phone or email any time he wants to. He'll get bombarded with some serious brainwashing, so warn him about the MTC indoctrination machine and remind him that he's an adult and his own man. They don't have any power over him that he doesn't want to give them, and he is a volunteer that doesn't owe them anything. Any time a mission president, zone leader, or companion is being a jerk, he can tell them to stuff it because he's a volunteer and follows his conscience, not some made up BS rules. I don't know how mature and self confident your son is, but the more self confident the better. If not, tell him to lean on you guys.

Anyway, I wish you and your son the best!

fh451

This is some excellent advice. My son skips church, because of the overbearing and coercive behavior of his leaders and teachers. I've been writing, lately, about how the church is aggressive. It's actually my son who pointed it out to me. He didn't say the exact words, but he knows when someone is being over-bearing and coercive and he goes in complete lockdown. He's done it all his life. I told him I'm not discouraging him, but overbearing and coercive is what a mission is.

I would also throw in there that he is funding this adventure.

[Brent]

I have a nephew who recently returned after reading the CES letter in the field. For the sake of balance and openness maybe he should be introduced to it.

[Unendowed]

IS he aware of the church's complicated history? If not, he deserved to know so he can make in informed decision on whether he wants to sell it for two years of his life.

I'm​ pretty sure he is not aware of the all hidden history surrounding the church and it's beginnings. I would love to sit down with my kids and explain the problems I have with the church and if they want to still go on a mission I would 100% support it. My wife is the only thing holding me back. She wants them to come to their own conclusions on their own. I understand where she is coming from but I don't agree. I feel as a parent I have the right to explain my point of view to my kids. The thing is she's not even a TBM, she thinks the church is all bunk as much as I do but still feels the church provides value so she protects our kids from the ugly parts. The church being the source of all good is the warped mindset that she just can't shake. She's​ worried our kids will become drug addicts and prostitutes if they leave the church. This church sure messes with people's heads. It's like an institutionalized prisoner who can't function outside of prison.

[Linked]

There are worse things in life than missions, but the underlying tactics used to get young men to go on them are just plain wrong. I'm sorry you and your son are going through this.

I told my son that I want him to attend a year of school before he can make a decision to go on a mission. I will pay for his mission if he still decides to go after attending a year of school. If he leaves before that time, he will have to find his own financing.

I really like this idea. I think I will do this with my sons. I might even be able to get TBM DW on board. Going on a mission because of peer pressure is a bad reason to go. Then if he spends a year at college (preferably a non-LDS college) if they still want to go then at least it is less of a peer pressure thing, and I can respect their decision more.

[Corsair]

Many of us will be faced with the prospect of sending one of our own children on an LDS mission. What kind of non-standard, if not heretical, bits of information would you want to send with them? Here are some of my ideas:

• You are welcome to come home at any time with neither shame nor loss of honor in my eyes
• You are welcome to call, email, or text me whenever you want. I will largely stick with a weekly routine of writing to you, but you are free to contact me any time with any question, concern, news, or therapeutic need to talk.
• You are a legal adult that can conceivably vote, take out a loan, hold a job, get married, or run for public office. Mission leadership will often treat you like you were a child. Your job is to grow as a person and serve the people in your area, not serve your mission president or the numerous district and zone leaders wanting to make AP.
• Nobody joins the church simply because the missionaries are keeping the rules. If that were the case, free agency is clearly being violated. Converts join a church because they love the missionaries, the local ward members, and the church itself because it offers something they don't have. Your ability to show Christlike love for others as well as mortal and fallible skills in sales will have more effect than being "obedient with exactness" (this was the exact phrase from my mission and many others).
• Mission rules are not equal to the commandments of Jesus. I fully give you permission to retain your own moral judgement and discard rules that are foolish, dangerous, short sighted, or just plain silly. The one big exception to this might be rules around mission vehicles since that is entirely not your car and you are being entrusted with its use.
• Your health is paramount, especially if you are serving in a poor country. It is a rare mission office that has a certified medical team. If you think there is a problem that is not getting treated, contact me directly and I will personally make sure that you are cared for. You are still on my insurance, after all. The LDS church tends to try and save money on these items.
• I know how much I am paying each month for this mission. Keep me informed if the mission office tends to be slow on funds or lowers your modest stipend. If you are going to a financially stable country, you will be keeping a small checkbook with you in case of emergencies. For a poor country, you will be keeping some travelers checks with you.
• Never forget that you are a volunteer who is paying for this service. The mission president and mission leadership only has as much power over you as you grant to them.
• Keep your passport with you. There is no legal reason why you should have to give it up. Yes, your mission president may insist otherwise. If he turns this into a power struggle, give it to him and I will report your passport "lost" and get a new one sent to you.
• Love the people, learn the language, and serve more than you teach. Make this an experience of spiritual and emotional growth, not a sales job driven by weekly stats.

[Linked]

Many of us will be faced with the prospect of sending one of our own children on an LDS mission. What kind of non-standard, if not heretical, bits of information would you want to send with them? Here are some of my ideas:

...

Great list.

Send a phone with them so they can call home as desired.

Let them know they are not a salesman, and they have no need to use sales tactics they are uncomfortable with. No matter what the zone conference was about.

[Meilingkie]

Other points
1. Never, ever give anyone your passport. Never, not even MP.
2. As a parent have 2 open tickets in your drawer so you can pick him up pronto. Make sure you have a code so He can snuck it in the mails.

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

Many of us will be faced with the prospect of sending one of our own children on an LDS mission. What kind of non-standard, if not heretical, bits of information would you want to send with them? Here are some of my ideas:

• You are welcome to come home at any time with neither shame nor loss of honor in my eyes
• You are welcome to call, email, or text me whenever you want. I will largely stick with a weekly routine of writing to you, but you are free to contact me any time with any question, concern, news, or therapeutic need to talk.
• You are a legal adult that can conceivably vote, take out a loan, hold a job, get married, or run for public office. Mission leadership will often treat you like you were a child. Your job is to grow as a person and serve the people in your area, not serve your mission president or the numerous district and zone leaders wanting to make AP.
• Nobody joins the church simply because the missionaries are keeping the rules. If that were the case, free agency is clearly being violated. Converts join a church because they love the missionaries, the local ward members, and the church itself because it offers something they don't have. Your ability to show Christlike love for others as well as mortal and fallible skills in sales will have more effect than being "obedient with exactness" (this was the exact phrase from my mission and many others).
• Mission rules are not equal to the commandments of Jesus. I fully give you permission to retain your own moral judgement and discard rules that are foolish, dangerous, short sighted, or just plain silly. The one big exception to this might be rules around mission vehicles since that is entirely not your car and you are being entrusted with its use.
• Your health is paramount, especially if you are serving in a poor country. It is a rare mission office that has a certified medical team. If you think there is a problem that is not getting treated, contact me directly and I will personally make sure that you are cared for. You are still on my insurance, after all. The LDS church tends to try and save money on these items.
• I know how much I am paying each month for this mission. Keep me informed if the mission office tends to be slow on funds or lowers your modest stipend. If you are going to a financially stable country, you will be keeping a small checkbook with you in case of emergencies. For a poor country, you will be keeping some travelers checks with you.
• Never forget that you are a volunteer who is paying for this service. The mission president and mission leadership only has as much power over you as you grant to them.
• Keep your passport with you. There is no legal reason why you should have to give it up. Yes, your mission president may insist otherwise. If he turns this into a power struggle, give it to him and I will report your passport "lost" and get a new one sent to you.
• Love the people, learn the language, and serve more than you teach. Make this an experience of spiritual and emotional growth, not a sales job driven by weekly stats.

This is such an excellent list, it should be published in a shirt pocket sized binding with black plastic cover and called the "black handbook".

[redjay]

Many of us will be faced with the prospect of sending one of our own children on an LDS mission. What kind of non-standard, if not heretical, bits of information would you want to send with them? Here are some of my ideas:

• You are welcome to come home at any time with neither shame nor loss of honor in my eyes
• You are welcome to call, email, or text me whenever you want. I will largely stick with a weekly routine of writing to you, but you are free to contact me any time with any question, concern, news, or therapeutic need to talk.
• You are a legal adult that can conceivably vote, take out a loan, hold a job, get married, or run for public office. Mission leadership will often treat you like you were a child. Your job is to grow as a person and serve the people in your area, not serve your mission president or the numerous district and zone leaders wanting to make AP.
• Nobody joins the church simply because the missionaries are keeping the rules. If that were the case, free agency is clearly being violated. Converts join a church because they love the missionaries, the local ward members, and the church itself because it offers something they don't have. Your ability to show Christlike love for others as well as mortal and fallible skills in sales will have more effect than being "obedient with exactness" (this was the exact phrase from my mission and many others).
• Mission rules are not equal to the commandments of Jesus. I fully give you permission to retain your own moral judgement and discard rules that are foolish, dangerous, short sighted, or just plain silly. The one big exception to this might be rules around mission vehicles since that is entirely not your car and you are being entrusted with its use.
• Your health is paramount, especially if you are serving in a poor country. It is a rare mission office that has a certified medical team. If you think there is a problem that is not getting treated, contact me directly and I will personally make sure that you are cared for. You are still on my insurance, after all. The LDS church tends to try and save money on these items.
• I know how much I am paying each month for this mission. Keep me informed if the mission office tends to be slow on funds or lowers your modest stipend. If you are going to a financially stable country, you will be keeping a small checkbook with you in case of emergencies. For a poor country, you will be keeping some travelers checks with you.
• Never forget that you are a volunteer who is paying for this service. The mission president and mission leadership only has as much power over you as you grant to them.
• Keep your passport with you. There is no legal reason why you should have to give it up. Yes, your mission president may insist otherwise. If he turns this into a power struggle, give it to him and I will report your passport "lost" and get a new one sent to you.
• Love the people, learn the language, and serve more than you teach. Make this an experience of spiritual and emotional growth, not a sales job driven by weekly stats.

This is such an excellent list, it should be published in a shirt pocket sized binding with black plastic cover and called the "black handbook".

Agreed

[redjay]

IS he aware of the church's complicated history? If not, he deserved to know so he can make in informed decision on whether he wants to sell it for two years of his life.

I'm​ pretty sure he is not aware of the all hidden history surrounding the church and it's beginnings. I would love to sit down with my kids and explain the problems I have with the church and if they want to still go on a mission I would 100% support it. My wife is the only thing holding me back. She wants them to come to their own conclusions on their own. I understand where she is coming from but I don't agree. I feel as a parent I have the right to explain my point of view to my kids. The thing is she's not even a TBM, she thinks the church is all bunk as much as I do but still feels the church provides value so she protects our kids from the ugly parts. The church being the source of all good is the warped mindset that she just can't shake. She's​ worried our kids will become drug addicts and prostitutes if they leave the church. This church sure messes with people's heads. It's like an institutionalized prisoner who can't function outside of prison.

Do you live in the morridor?

One of my biggest shelf breakers has been my non-member next door neighbours (they have no idea). They live in a similar house have two kids are both professionals, they seem normal and 'happy', I'm not naive to think they have no issues. But they seem to be financially better off, I do not believe that god will separate their family in the next life, and I am fairly sure their children will grow up, go to university and be productive; same as my kids but without the guilt of the 'for strength of youth' program.

Fairly sure that atheists raise kids as successfully as christians. Though I do still believe in what I perceive to be the message of christ.