Things leading them away

[moksha]

I was thinking a few more bubbles could be added:

• Internet

• Church politics

• Church commercial interests

• More dissatisfaction than satisfaction

What other bubbles are missing?

[Give It Time]

The "disagree with current policies" doesn't quite hit the nail on the head. "Ordain Women" doesn't quite hit the nail on the head. The policy referenced is just drawing a hard line on the doctrine that homosexuality is a sin. This isn't just Mormon doctrine, but if it weren't a doctrine, there wouldn't be a policy.

In the temple, women covenant to obey their husbands as if he were God, himself. This means always. Even when he's being unrighteous by objective opinion, the woman still needs to obey him. This gives can give a man a sense of entitlement. A massive sense of entitlement is a key factor behind domestic violence. Absolute obedience is used by abusers. Forgiveness as it is taught over the pulpit is used by abusers. Priesthood and gender roles are a definite factor. Polygamy? Hello, entitlement. Someday he'll be a god? Hello entitlement. So, for me, the missing bubble is simply

The Doctrine

[wtfluff]

What other bubbles are missing?

• Institutional Dishonesty - From Joseph Smith, right up to Thomas Monson

[alas]

My TBM DH added his own bubble. Actually two bubbles. The church fails to meet members emotional, spiritual, social, intellectual, and community needs. The meetings are BORING.

He blames those two things being worse now than 50 years ago firmly on BKP, and his attitude that church is not meant to be entertaining, and that only songs out of hymnals should be sung or played as prelude, and that all meetings or activities need "priesthood purpose." Church stopped being fun, interesting, or social, or community because of his attitude that people go to church to be indoctrinated and to serve the church in indoctrinating others.

I am working slowly on converting him to NOMhood.

[Give It Time]

My TBM DH added his own bubble. Actually two bubbles. The church fails to meet members emotional, spiritual, social, intellectual, and community needs. The meetings are BORING.

He blames those two things being worse now than 50 years ago firmly on BKP, and his attitude that church is not meant to be entertaining, and that only songs out of hymnals should be sung or played as prelude, and that all meetings or activities need "priesthood purpose." Church stopped being fun, interesting, or social, or community because of his attitude that people go to church to be indoctrinated and to serve the church in indoctrinating others.

I am working slowly on converting him to NOMhood.

The church was fun, back then. My best friend was a never-Mo who moved into the area when her parents divorced. There was a lot of contention in her home. Her two siblings were at each other's throats constantly and her mother worked full time, was stretched thin and just had it rough.

My friend loved all the church activities. She loved primary. She loved FHE with my family. She loved ward parties, because they were just so much fun and a welcome respite from her home life. We invited them to have the missionaries talk to them. The mom declined. We didn't push. The mom asked about how we did family home evening and we showed her a manual, but told her the point was to gather as a family, have an uplifting message and just enjoy each other. Past that, we didn't push. Her mother never forbid her daughter from coming to church activities.

I think there's a valuable missionary possibility in just making the church fun. I've lost track of that friend. I'm pretty sure she never joined the church, but I'm sure she has some good stories and warm memories. Those things do count for something.

[deacon blues]

What other bubbles are missing?

• Institutional Dishonesty - From Joseph Smith, right up to Thomas Monson

I agree. This, plus polygamy, plus the dubious nature of Joseph Smith's translations.

For me, the "incredulity over church history" bubble is spot on.

[deacon blues]

My TBM DH added his own bubble. Actually two bubbles. The church fails to meet members emotional, spiritual, social, intellectual, and community needs. The meetings are BORING.

He blames those two things being worse now than 50 years ago firmly on BKP, and his attitude that church is not meant to be entertaining, and that only songs out of hymnals should be sung or played as prelude, and that all meetings or activities need "priesthood purpose." Church stopped being fun, interesting, or social, or community because of his attitude that people go to church to be indoctrinated and to serve the church in indoctrinating others.

I am working slowly on converting him to NOMhood.

BKP is also partly responsible for the continuing institutional dishonesty. Remember, "The truth is not helpful?"

[Hagoth]

Hermey told me he saw a modified version that only had one bubble: Joseph Smith

To me, the biggest problem is the title.

What It says: Issues and Ideas Leading People Away From the Gospel.
What it should say: Issues and Ideas Leading People Away From the Institution

I think it is very possible that there are issues and ideas that are leading people AWAY from the institution but TOWARD the gospel.

[Give It Time]

Hermey told me he saw a modified version that only had one bubble: Joseph Smith

To me, the biggest problem is the title.

What It says: Issues and Ideas Leading People Away From the Gospel.
What it should say: Issues and Ideas Leading People Away From the Institution

I think it is very possible that there are issues and ideas that are leading people AWAY from the institution but TOWARD the gospel.

Perfectly said.

[Bloodhound98]

What other bubbles are missing?

• Institutional Dishonesty - From Joseph Smith, right up to Thomas Monson

I don't care about most of those bubbles. I care about history and conditioning my kids with inaccurate doctrine! Just be honest so no one has to go through stages of grief when they find out the truth of their beloved religion

[2bizE]

Why is incredulity over church history part of the far left?
I would liken to see the various aspects of church history broken into specific bubbles.
85% could be church history and the other a bubble on people not caring for religion at all.

[moksha]

Why is incredulity over church history part of the far left?

Makes you wonder what the author of this Powerpoint presentation to the Brethren was thinking when he attached the labels far left and far right.

Possibly it could be the far left represented ideas that would appeal to Stephen Hawking and the far right ideas that would appeal to Pennywise the Clown. That would leave considerable room for the rest of us in the middle.

[Brent]

I like "boring", the emphasis of church meetings is shut up and follow the brethren, could it be more bland?

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

Lack of financial transparency

[20/20hind]

What other bubbles are missing?

• Institutional Dishonesty - From Joseph Smith, right up to Thomas Monson

Indeed. Come on do they tell the truth about anything. I think what they have mastered in throwing a little truth in there and then obfuscate.

A good example of this is the seer stone. Russell nelson gave a talk to a group of mission presidents where he talked about the use of the seer stone. On one hand they can point back and say see we told you guys about it. While completely leaving it out of the church lessons through correlation. Its just really a bunch of bs and they have mastered it.

Its careful wording to down play or diminish its importance. An example would be the polygamy essay. They say joseph was sealed ro a girl just shy of her 15th biirthday.

Another one in the essay is talking about Joseph's polyandry. They say it was so joseph could take care of the women who where married to unrighteous men. Really, like josephs own apostles where not good enough. But the leave that little nugget of info out.

So no. They are liars. Its been that way since the church was started.

And no one ever likes being lied to.

That bubble should take most of the page on the power point.

[Hermey]

[Give It Time]

Actually, this applies to both history and doctrine. This works pretty well.