-800 Units in Europe

[Mormorrisey]

Too bad the financial scandal didn't make an appearance, but what a great interview. You did very well, and it was great to put a voice and a face to an online presence. Great work! It will be interesting to hear about the fallout (if there is any) for you after doing this interview, especially given the authoritarian nature of your SP. Keep us posted!

[2bizE]

Is there a way to listen to the broadcast?

[Silver Girl]

If you're friends with John, or in the Mormon Stories Podcast group on FaceNeck™, you can view the video there.

John will more than likely include it as part of the podcasts on the Momonstories site when he gets it ready.

Thanks, Fluff! I accidentally stumbled on it last night & watched the cache version from the FB link. It's an excellent interview, it was great to see one of our own in person (very articulate!), and it discussed thought-provoking facts.

[Silver Girl]

Is there a way to listen to the broadcast?

See the post above - I was able to watch it through FB (the recorded version is available). I am sure John will include it in the podcast series, too.

[Korihor]

Is there a way to listen to the broadcast?

Looks like Mr Dehlin already posted it on Mormon Stories podcast this morning.

[LostMormon]

I just listened to the podcast, I had not read this thread until after I listened, but I wondered if it might be you, and was super excited to find out it was! Good Job on the interview. I can tell you were a little uncomfortable answering questions there at the end when John started pushing you about your testimony, but totally understandable, as you're probably in a pretty tight spot. I Would be curious to know if this has landed you in any hot water.

[GoodBoy]

It's posted to Youtube here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDwXepbc0H8

[Meilingkie]

Trouble?
Will test the waters tomorrow, a youth-activity in our ward where I attend with my kids.
2nd counselor to the SP is there as well with his 2 teenage sons, he resides in my ward.
A hike for the dads................

[Rob4Hope]

Meilingkie, I am grateful you made the cast with John. I live in HQ...right smack down in the middle of SLC, and this stuff you mentioned is pretty much totally unknown in this area.

In fact, in contrast to your experience, I have been in a stake with 5 wards, and each and every ward, you could walk the entire perimeter of the ward boundries in about 20 min--IT IS THAT DENSELY PACKED LDS! So, what you have in Europe is NOTHING compared to here. Also, those here are usually (not exaggerating) 4th, 5th+....generational LDS. Its like this little bubble world of non-reality, and there is a sense of "What's the big problem?...the church is fine." (I laugh, because its almost like "all is well in Zion,...yeh, all is well" fits this pretty close...)

I'm so glad I plugged into this site. You are all family to me, and LET ME TELL YOU ALL (from my experience), when you live where I do and you leave the church,...it kindof puts a ripple in your social fabric...if you get my meaning!

Meilingkie,...you mentioned something in your podcast that Dutch don't want to be "told" what to do--you talk about it and choose what you do. I am reminded of scripture: "No influence can or aught to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood....". It irritates me to no end how the GA's just walk and ignore that. Their attitude is "Do what I SAY because I speak for GOD!"... Well,...they don't want to have people reason and be persuaded themselves,..because they can't handle that IMHO.

Bye the way...my glasses are prettier than yours....

[Meilingkie]

Yep, when I got home DW said: you look like an idiot for the next 2 years...... I can get new glasses in 2 months from now through my insurance

[Rob4Hope]

Yep, when I got home DW said: you look like an idiot for the next 2 years...... I can get new glasses in 2 months from now through my insurance

Just dont choose the same kind as my monkey. I looked hard to find the monkey that had my personal likeness....

WHAT?

YIKES!

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

Yep, when I got home DW said: you look like an idiot for the next 2 years...... I can get new glasses in 2 months from now through my insurance

You could get some from that handsome actor optometrist on "the best two years". I hear he was a golden convert too!

[Can of Worms]

Hi Meilingkie -

I just finished listening to the podcast on Mormon Stories and am really impressed with how clearly you articulated the situation in Europe. I completely agree with your point about cultural insensitivity/colonialism and dynastic leadership.

I live just outside of the Morcor in Canada and see it here as well. I respect that the Church's roots are in the US and there are strong family ties between Utah and Southern Alberta (in fact, my great grandfather was sent from Utah to help establish the Church in Cardston) but it is puzzling when the opening hymn on the Sunday closest to July 4 is My Country 'Tis of Thee instead of O Canada (our national holiday is July 1). It is also annoying when, on average, half of the tithes collected in Canada are funneled back to the US (via BYU) instead staying in the country to build up our communities. That was a big crack on my shelf.

With regard to dynastic leadership - we see it here as well. There are families who generation after generation are bishops, stake presidents, patriarchs, seventies, etc. I think that is just the nature of an organization that is led very tightly by a small group in Utah - you go with a known entity.

You've given us a lot to think about. Thank you for your courage -

[ulmite]

Thanks for speaking up about the Church's situation in Europe.

To give an example of wards/branches being rearranged during the past few years :
The leadership decided to merge our branch with another one (centers 20 min drive away). Our branch was around 50, theirs was around 30. This gave us the bare minimum (12) active MP holders to form a ward. After a few months, only about 15-20 of the members from the other branch continued to make the weekly commute, and a few years later it's more like 10. Meanwhile, a tiny branch (40 min drive away) is dwindling, and only 20 active members were left, including a family with 6 kids. Their branch building was closed, and they were sent (20 min drive away from their branch center) to the building of a ward in a neighboring country. Activity quickly dropped to 12 members, and they were finally merged with our ward. They come about every other week, but the 40 minute - 1 hour drive is crazy. Our ward is now huge : from the building you can drive North for 1 hour, East for 1 hour, South for 25 minutes, or West for 40 minutes, never leaving the ward boundaries.
Through this whole time, our ward has scraped by with 12 or 13 active MP holders.
Over the past ten years, we've had 8 baptisms which have stuck in our ward, not counting 8-year-olds.
The Western Europe Area Presidency decided back in 2010 that church attendance should double over the next ten years. Yes, DOUBLE. How does one get such a miracle to happen, you ask? Step one : find a name for the temple in your family history. Step two : food storage and financial stability. Step three : find a friend. Financial stability would be a worthy objective, but of course we don't hear about it, beyond pay tithing to get those blessings.
The Church's stance on gays is revolting to most of Europe's population, except for the religious nuts who are already either part of a great and abominable church, or mormons, so good luck converting people! The main problem for Church growth in Europe is that people. just. don't. care. enough. to put up with nonsense.

[Meilingkie]

ULMITE: Are you based in Belgium if I may ask?
There are rather few cross-border stakes.

[Rob4Hope]

This is off topic to the general thread here,...but how is tithing interpreted over there in Europe?

In the US, and especially in HQ in SLC, it is pay on your NET INCOME minimum. And, there are talks about paying "on the blessings you want to receive"...which is used as a justification to pay more than just on your NET. I've heard local leadership talk about paying on your GROSS income as well.

I am curious what the general idea is over there, and what is taught?

[ulmite]

Sorry Meilingkie, I'm not that close to the Netherlands.
European tithing is assumed to be on net, it really doesn't make sense to pay on gross in europe because social charges are quite high. I suppose the question is open as to whether or not to pay on interest from investments.

[Meilingkie]

Many I know pay on gross. This effectively is 20% of net income.
1 stake asks people for their income-taxstatement and then tells people to pay 10% on that which is 10% before taxes but after taxdeductions.
Refusing to bring said form means no TR

[redjay]

This is off topic to the general thread here,...but how is tithing interpreted over there in Europe?

In the US, and especially in HQ in SLC, it is pay on your NET INCOME minimum. And, there are talks about paying "on the blessings you want to receive"...which is used as a justification to pay more than just on your NET. I've heard local leadership talk about paying on your GROSS income as well.

I am curious what the general idea is over there, and what is taught?

I'm in the UK. Seems gross is the order of the day. I was taught gross by my parents. General feeling is net is cheating. I've been happy to pay net for the last few years, until more recently when I figured that they were right 'the lord does not need my money' and I looked at the wealth of the church and I figured they didn't need it either. DW still pays although we had the gross vs net conversation about 2 months ago, and I had to send her a link to LDS Org to show her that net was even an option.

That said, most years tithing settlements are not done, or at least no one hounds you until you sit down with the bishop. No one looks for proof of income as M was talking about in his part of the Netherlands, in order to get a TR.

In Europe the church is very expensive, very homophobic and very boring. Not a product that sells.

[moksha]

Stake asks people for their income-tax statement ...in order to get a TR.

Sounds like a clear case of papercraft!