Standing Strong In Tough Times

[Give It Time]

I had a trying experience, yesterday, that probably consumed two hours by the clock. It wasn't horrible, but it did illustrate very clearly the decisions I've made have been good ones. It did make things clear that I will likely have times when I will have to deal with this situation for the rest of my life. I can, at least, minimize those situations and mentally/emotionality/spiritually prepare for them. Still, even without milking a two hour event so it consumes two months, they do serve as an impetus to cheer myself up. My action plan:

Take care of myself by eating good foods and getting exercise
Keep life running smoothly by doing housework, paying bills, etc.
Work toward goals by doing homework, de-cluttering and gardening
Keep up my daily routine of reading the Toa Te Ching and meditating
Utilizing the atonement as a means for letting go of my problems

You get the idea. I'm very busy, but other possibilities for strengthening yourself through tough times include:

Service
Getting together with family
Doing some really fun recreational activity
Getting clarity on the situation through therapy

This morning, there was an email from the church in my inbox. It was entitled "Standing Strong In Tough Times".

I thought it timely and I opened the email. I don't want to provide the link, but will provide the list of tactics suggested in the email.

Keep the Sabbath Day holy and honor the Priesthood
Make and keep sacred covenants
Continuously repent and plead with the Lord to receive forgiveness of our sins
Work on family history and attend the temple
Pray and serve and testify and exercise faith in Jesus Christ
Immerse ourselves in the holy scriptures and the words of the Lord's chosen servants


I was thunderstruck. I'm truly working on getting to an amicable place with the church. I'll put this as kindly as I can. This list isn't useful. In fact, there are ways that this list actually keeps us marinating in our problems. I was shocked at how many of the items on this list, at their most benign, are really just distracting time wasters. Repenting could apply, but not all difficulty is brought about by sin. In fact this boiler-plate standard advice can have a person wasting a lot of time and emotional energy looking for exactly what they need to repent of when actually what they need is Grace and getting busy. The line item about Jesus Christ is useful, but I don't think even the Savior would have us be that immersive about it. I really do think the Savior would like us to trust that He'll have our backs and get down to business.

Just amazed at the difference between good common sense and what the church advises.

[Palerider]

Keep the Sabbath Day holy and honor the Priesthood
Make and keep sacred covenants
Continuously repent and plead with the Lord to receive forgiveness of our sins
Work on family history and attend the temple
Pray and serve and testify and exercise faith in Jesus Christ
Immerse ourselves in the holy scriptures and the words of the Lord's chosen servants

First, I'm sorry for your difficulties and hope that they can eventually be well resolved. Sometimes life is just like that and the only thing we can do aside from prayer and faith is work our way through this stuff.

Secondly, the above list seems to say, "No matter what happens to YOU, keep working for ME."

In my youth I saw thoughtless, uncaring men nearly work a horse to death in order to get what THEY wanted accomplished. It didn't have to be that way. They could have pooled a little of their own resources (which they all had sufficient of) and done the task differently but they took advantage of a helpless animal in order to get it done cheaply. Exploitative bastards. Still makes me angry.

[Vlad the Emailer]

Wow, I love it. Very stark contrast. There is a list the church puts out (I'm actually surprised it didn't specifically say "make sure you always follow the brethren") and then there's this other list that has a chance of actually helping you (and others!).

Great list, by the way.

Thanks for sharing. I hope things get better.

[Give It Time]

Thank you. Things are already better from yesterday, from last night, from when I wrote the post. Like the horse, I needed to get free of my old master. It's kind of like one of the Rabbi's prayers in Fiddler On The Roof.


May God bless and keep the Czar...
Far away from us!


I can see how devotion to the church is perceived as devotion to God, but now that the blinders are off, I see things differently. Devotion to an organization, even if that organization is trying to be good, is not devotion to God. The organization is finite. It keeps you busy running around in a circles, but actually stalls your progress. There's nothing really substantial about successfully weathering or getting through life's storms. Perhaps if the list were entitled "Moving Strong In Tough Times" with the implication being taking action rather than standing still, a more useful list might have been produced.

[alas]

Secondly, the above list seems to say, "No matter what happens to YOU, keep working for ME."

That really sums up the church's list of "suggestions" pretty well.

Those items are ALL basically "do church stuff" and are all the same exact coping strategy. On the positive side, for some people, spiritual things can really help them step away from the problem, gain perspective, rest and recuperate. On the negative side, if you do not find such things meaningful, uplifting, spiritual, then these suggestions will just add more stress as one more thing to do.

At best, these suggestions are not a method of solving the problem, but a "rest and recuperate" strategy. "Rest and recuperate" won't help you a bit to fix real life problems. It only lets you step away from your problem to rest. It is escape.

Rest needs to balance with work. If rest is the only thing you do, no work ever gets done.

If this kind of spiritual uplift it is the ONLY strategy you have, then it is only a method of ignoring the problem. It basically says ignore your problems while you do our busy work and you will be too busy running in circles to feel the pain of your problems while those problems continue to get worse. I have known people who lived their life that way. It wasn't always church, but sometimes a job or hobby or addiction. But the person was too chicken sh*t to actually face the serious problem and so they hid from the problem by being too busy. They used church or job or whatever like an drug and numbed the pain of the problem. It didn't solve the problem, only distracted them from thinking about it or working to solve it.

In fact, this kind of ignoring problems is what killed my mother, when she applied it to medical problems. This is something I always hated about my mother. She must have read Gone With the Wind as a kid and admired Scarlet's, "I'll think about it tomorrow" approach to life so much that she adopted it as her life philosophy.

OK, sure, when you are stressed, sometimes something like a day at the temple is a rest and it kind of rejunivates you....if you like the temple and find it calming. I find it quite opposite of calming and spiritual and uplifting and rejunivating, but for people it works for, it can be a rest from facing the problems. But when church stuff is your primary coping strategy it is an escape rather than coping. Sort of like chocolate. A little chocolate helps you feel better. But applying chocolate as your primary coping strategy just makes you fat and is like a drug that helps you not care that the problem is getting worse.

Give It Time's list has:
1. self care
2. Life maintenance.
3. Work
4. Rest and perspective
5. Spiritual stuff

Nicely balanced.

The church's list is:
1. Church stuff.
2. Church stuff
3. Church stuff
4. Church stuff
5. Church stuff.

Not going to work because it is badly out of balance. And for many people church stuff is just not the kind of spiritual stuff they need.

My grandson's coping list is:
1. computer games
2. computer games
3. computer games
4. computer games
5. computer games

Which is why he failed math. His strategy is failing for the same reason the church's list would fail.

[Give It Time]

If this kind of spiritual uplift it is the ONLY strategy you have, then it is only a method of ignoring the problem. It basically says ignore your problems while you do our busy work and you will be too busy running in circles to feel the pain of your problems while those problems continue to get worse. I have known people who lived their life that way. It wasn't always church, but sometimes a job or hobby or addiction. But the person was too chicken sh*t to actually face the serious problem and so they hid from the problem by being too busy. They used church or job or whatever like an drug and numbed the pain of the problem. It didn't solve the problem, only distracted them from thinking about it or working to solve it.

Terrific post and insights, Alas. I pulled out this part, because as I was reading your post I was thinking that the church's list is very much like using alcohol to avoid problems. It's a distraction. You can forget about the problem, for awhile, but sometimes just avoiding the problem makes​ it get bigger. Or you have the problem and now an addiction and it's ramifications to deal with. I read the list and my first thought after this list is useless was no wonder we have the highest anti-depressant usage in the U.S.

I have been having some more thoughts about this and I want to indulge in a little benevolent sexism. I was recently talking to some coworkers. We were a group of three females and one male. One of my female co-workers related an unusual problem she had to solve in her personal life. She started floating ideas. They were all doable, but they were all a circuitous path to solving the problem, they were a lot of work and none of them solved the problem entirely. The other woman and I chimed in with suggestions, but they were all similar in strategy, difficulty and effectiveness. Then The man in the group spoke up, offered a single, simple suggestion that solved the problem entirely. It was quick, easy. Boom. Done.

This ability to come up with a simple straightforward solution is something I've noticed that men seem to be able to do more than women. I think it has to do with gender roles. Men and boys are simply given more opportunities and autonomy to solve problems. Women aren't given this training, are told the men are in charge. If a woman has a good idea, she has to float it through a man. If a woman wants something, she has to get it through under-handed (not deceitful, just not straightforward, I couldn't think of an adequate word) means and manipulation. Men are taught straightforward problem solving skills; women are taught circuitous problem solving skills. Now, they both have their advantages and their disadvantages, but I'd definitely the straightforward is quicker, more efficient and in terms of effectiveness, equal.

In looking at the list that came in that email, I noticed that all the solutions are circuitous. I'll do my best in putting forth this potentially inflammatory possibility. This circuitous advice potentially teaches all who use it problem solving skills that are more time consuming, more costly in terms of effort. They are reinforcing in women and teaching to men less efficient problem solving skills. This has the possibility of eroding self esteem as the sense of accomplishment in the individual diminishes. This infantalizes the person in their problem solving skills. The person concludes the defect must be within themselves and turns to a similar list to this to correct that problem. None of these is a simple, clear strategy for a balanced approach to solving the problem and the person stays stuck.

[alas]

I think you are correct that women are taught to solve problems indirectly, while men are trained to tackle them straight on. This is not a Mormon issue, but is also part of the US culture. Women are even punished for the direct approach. One example is that when men go into their boss to request a raise, they are often given the raise. But women going in and asking directly for a raise were less often given the raise and were equally likely to be fired as given the raise. Men were rewarded for the direct approach while women were punished for the same behavior.

I have never considered the problem solving skills taught by the church before. There is for sure a lot of passive aggressive tactics taught at church and this list that is pure escapism.

So, I am wondering, can anyone think of other examples of how the church teaches problem solving?

I am thinking of common advice and the ones I come up with are, 1. Pray---indirect. 2. Talk to your bishop---indirect. And then I come up blank as to any others that are taught. At least, as a woman that I have heard taught.

[wtfluff]

So, I am wondering, can anyone think of other examples of how the church teaches problem solving?

I am thinking of common advice and the ones I come up with are, 1. Pray---indirect. 2. Talk to your bishop---indirect. And then I come up blank as to any others that are taught. At least, as a woman that I have heard taught.

I was going to say something about the church's version of "problem solving" earlier, but stopped my fingers. Now that you've brought it up again...

Along with your pray and speak to the IT guy down the street (bishop) the list that G.I.T. gave covers most of the problem solving skills I was taught: Attend the temple, read the scriptures, etc... The same old "Sunday School Answers".

In my useless opinion, the problem solving skills that the church teaches are completely useless when dealing with reality. For me at least, they Just. Don't. Work.

[Give It Time]

I think you are correct that women are taught to solve problems indirectly, while men are trained to tackle them straight on. This is not a Mormon issue, but is also part of the US culture. Women are even punished for the direct approach. One example is that when men go into their boss to request a raise, they are often given the raise. But women going in and asking directly for a raise were less often given the raise and were equally likely to be fired as given the raise. Men were rewarded for the direct approach while women were punished for the same behavior.

I have never considered the problem solving skills taught by the church before. There is for sure a lot of passive aggressive tactics taught at church and this list that is pure escapism.

So, I am wondering, can anyone think of other examples of how the church teaches problem solving?

I am thinking of common advice and the ones I come up with are, 1. Pray---indirect. 2. Talk to your bishop---indirect. And then I come up blank as to any others that are taught. At least, as a woman that I have heard taught.

Here comes some more potentially sexist pontifications from me. I see the fact that feminism can't seem to gain traction as an indicator of circuitous problem solving. Ever since becoming feminist for the second time, I've noticed that women (not just feminists) will not unite. One wants priesthood and sees it as vital. Another has too much on her plate and doesn't want another responsibility. Some want abortion, some don't want abortion. Some want more equality and view it as quantifiable and measurable. Some don't feel unequal.

During the Women's March, I saw women more united than I've ever seen them in the past. Yet, I still see and hear many sneering comments that they don't know what the Women's March was about, because none of the women gave the same elevator pitch. Now, I get that it's important that we take in every factor and every point of intersectionality, but as we take in more and more, the path to equality becomes increasingly circuitous.

However, the topic is just too broad, the changes much too sweeping to be able to condense it down to a 30 second sound bite. Yet, as I've been writing this I've realized that back in the bronze age and before, and societies were evolving into patriarchy, I'm willing to bet there are men who didn't want to be the breadwinner, there were men who were homosexual who didn't appreciate being shunted aside, there were men who didn't want the burden of family life, there were men who didn't want to be tied down to marriage. I wasn't there, but I'm sure I'm making a reasonable assumption. Choices had to be made and not everyone could be pleased. Now, I believe there are aspects of patriarchy that are definitely damaging to men and they need to be changed, but I don't think women are going to make good progress on equality until they stop trying to please everyone, decide on the one or two most important issues, get a consensus, make that change, move onto the next issues down the line. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

[MoPag]

((Hugs)) I'm glad things are getting better. I like you list too.

I got the same email.

So, I am wondering, can anyone think of other examples of how the church teaches problem solving?

I am thinking of common advice and the ones I come up with are, 1. Pray---indirect. 2. Talk to your bishop---indirect. And then I come up blank as to any others that are taught. At least, as a woman that I have heard taught.

I think the church just struggles with processing the very idea of problems too. It's like they fall into 2 categories.
- Trials Heavenly Father gives us to strengthen us
- Consequences of sin or other bad things we did.

If I process my problems like this, in both cases I am the problem. I need to learn something that I didn't learn before so Heavenly Father gives me a trial (problem) to humble and strengthen me. Or I screw up and so I have problems.

Rarely, if ever do we learn that problems might just happen without divine intervention. And the church is so drunk on victim blaming/rape culture that we are rarely ever allowed to think of our problems as the result of someone else's agency. The victim always has to be at least a little bit guilty.

So it's no wonder the way they teach problem solving is...well...problematic.

[alas]

((Hugs)) I'm glad things are getting better. I like you list too.

I got the same email.

So, I am wondering, can anyone think of other examples of how the church teaches problem solving?

I am thinking of common advice and the ones I come up with are, 1. Pray---indirect. 2. Talk to your bishop---indirect. And then I come up blank as to any others that are taught. At least, as a woman that I have heard taught.

I think the church just struggles with processing the very idea of problems too. It's like they fall into 2 categories.
- Trials Heavenly Father gives us to strengthen us
- Consequences of sin or other bad things we did.

If I process my problems like this, in both cases I am the problem. I need to learn something that I didn't learn before so Heavenly Father gives me a trial (problem) to humble and strengthen me. Or I screw up and so I have problems.

Rarely, if ever do we learn that problems might just happen without divine intervention. And the church is so drunk on victim blaming/rape culture that we are rarely ever allowed to think of our problems as the result of someone else's agency. The victim always has to be at least a little bit guilty.

So it's no wonder the way they teach problem solving is...well...problematic.

Oh, great insight. There are only two kinds of problems. The kind God sends to teach, so don't worry, you'll get through it as soon as you learn. No fear of dying from a trial the lord sends to stregthen you.

And the kind of problem caused by feeling guilt over sin. So, if you hate yourself, it can't be because your parents treated you like crap, but because you have sinned are feel terrible.

And if the problem is always me, then more church is always the answer. If it is a trial God sent to strengthen me, more church will make me spiritually stronger. And if it is repentance I need, because my own sin has consequences that are causing all kinds of problems in my life, then more church will help me repent.

As I discovered when I tried to talk about problems in my life due to having been sexually abused by my father, my leaders just could not fathom a problem that my own sin didn't cause and my repentance wouldn't solve. It is like they have one tool in their tool box, and so when they need to screw something in, and all they have is the hammer, they go ahead and hit it with the hammer. They would tell me that the abuse was not my fault in one sentence and then tell me I needed to repent in the next. It was kind of crazy when you step back from it. If I can't deal with the whole Father/God thing because my earthly father was abusive, then they make me guilty of rejecting God and tell me to repent. It was like trying to repent of not being capable of flying. I won't let my children sleep over at the grandparents house because I am trying to protect my children, nope can't do that because it is unforgiving and he who will not forgive is guilty of the greater sin and I have to repent of being unforgiving by trusting a known child abuser with my kids. They just HAD to find something that I was doing wrong so, they could offer repentance as the solution.

And like with the Willie and Martin Handcart companies. Rather than they suffered because of a stupid mistake by the leaders, who were full of pride that God would protect them because true church, God sent those pioneers this trial to strengthen them. The believers just can't stand the answer to that problem being, "Do not blindly follow your leaders." Or
"God will let you suffer the consequences of somebody else's sin of pride." So, they have to twist it into this wonderful faith promoting, strengthening experience and how no one in those companies ever left the church. Faith promoting would have been God holding off the winter storms till they got to Salt Lake, not sending them early.

[Give It Time]

They are. Thank you.

I think you're right that the church just can't grasp that sometimes tough times just come as a result of living. We don't always need to find some grand lesson. Sometimes, just getting to shore is enough.

I remember, in my youth, being told that if we knew the big picture, we'd understand the trials in our lives. I remember it was a common thing for us coeds or those who were in their twenties (and higher?) and not married to sit around on those dateless weekend nights and wail/moan through tears, "if I could just see the big picture!" Memories.

I recently read a "big picture" perspective that sounds harsh, but I find it oddly comforting. It's a paraphrase from the Tao Te Ching.

The universe is pragmatic.
It's nothing personal.
The universe will do what it needs to survive.
It rains on the just and the unjust (yes, it's the Bible, I can't remember which nature analogy, here, same idea)
Given that the universe is pragmatic,
The best thing for us to do is to treat each other compassionately

The first time I read the chapter that holds this thought, I felt as though I'd been slapped. But as I've let it settle and I've been able to say, "It's nothing personal. It's just a part of life. God's not teaching me. God's not punishing me. Things just happen. They happen to us all. Now, go be kind." It's actually helped a lot. I don't feel like I wear a target.

[wtfluff]

... So, if you hate yourself, it can't be because your parents treated you like crap...

It couldn't be that the church taught people to hate themselves either, now could it?

[Newme]

Just amazed at the difference between good common sense and what the church advises.

As a friend said, "Church: Hell's assisted living." It's for people who want to feel like they're doing good about being damned - held back - because they either are too busy, clueless or too ashamed to actually acknowledge and work through their personal problems. Church leaders tend to discourage psych-ology (study of the soul) fearing that members may stop worshipping them -something like, "one will get closer to God by reading scripture than reading philosophies of men." (Of course they ignore the fact that scriptures are exactly that: philosophies of imperfect men - just happened to be canonized 1500 years ago). Some GA's warned members about psychology and self-help books and ever since my sister (who's in need of them!) won't touch them with a 10-foot pole.

Sad. When I'm not hurt by them, I feel bad for them. I remember feeling so stuck in crap - and trying so hard - but it was as if I was spinning my wheels, going no where and not knowing why after all I was doing, it STILL wasn't helping! Hell. Yet, there were enough bits of heaven which made it confusing... you know, human (church) philosophies mingled with truths.

[Give It Time]

Just amazed at the difference between good common sense and what the church advises.

As a friend said, "Church: Hell's assisted living." It's for people who want to feel like they're doing good about being damned - held back - because they either are too busy, clueless or too ashamed to actually acknowledge and work through their personal problems. Church leaders tend to discourage psych-ology (study of the soul) fearing that members may stop worshipping them -something like, "one will get closer to God by reading scripture than reading philosophies of men." (Of course they ignore the fact that scriptures are exactly that: philosophies of imperfect men - just happened to be canonized 1500 years ago). Some GA's warned members about psychology and self-help books and ever since my sister (who's in need of them!) won't touch them with a 10-foot pole.

Sad. When I'm not hurt by them, I feel bad for them. I remember feeling so stuck in crap - and trying so hard - but it was as if I was spinning my wheels, going no where and not knowing why after all I was doing, it STILL wasn't helping! Hell. Yet, there were enough bits of heaven which made it confusing... you know, human (church) philosophies mingled with truths.

I had this come up, just the other day. There's a person who thinks I'm immature because I left a bad situation and I think her views immoral because she is condoning people staying in those bad situations and being harmed. Thing is, she doesn't know the entire story, because she always pulls out a Sunday School answer and that just shuts down the conversation. She said she used to pray about getting out of a bad situation, but realized the Savior doesn't always want us to get out of bad situations, because they are opportunities for us to grow. She has a point...to a point. She then continued that the Atonement gives her strength to deal with her difficult situation. I've been trying to write how immoral this can be. Essentially saying to stay in a harmful situation, or not help others in harmful situations, because we are supposed to learn. Learn what, exactly, I don't know. I guess it varies from person to person, but allowing yourself or others to be harmed--and I mean actually counseling them to stay in the harmful situation--because the Savior is "teaching" you, I think is immoral.

Each time I started writing, I remembered, she has been saying this for years. I do believe that life is difficult, but I do believe in finding joy in the day the Lord has made. That is within doctrine, even if we don't hear it much. Anyway, this time it has just hit me, she has been saying this for a very long time. Something in her life must be absolute crap and she sees herself essentially being trapped in it. I refrained from saying the atonement gave me strength when I realized I had to leave a difficult situation. I didn't say that, because it always makes her cry. I'm now realizing. I don't think she's crying for me and my lost soul. I think she's crying for her and her stuck soul. My heart is really going out to her.

I understand that life is difficult, but I've noticed so many of the doctrines are used, either by the church or its members to just consign themselves to woe.

[Newme]

I had this come up, just the other day. There's a person who thinks I'm immature because I left a bad situation and I think her views immoral because she is condoning people staying in those bad situations and being harmed. Thing is, she doesn't know the entire story, because she always pulls out a Sunday School answer and that just shuts down the conversation. She said she used to pray about getting out of a bad situation, but realized the Savior doesn't always want us to get out of bad situations, because they are opportunities for us to grow. She has a point...to a point. She then continued that the Atonement gives her strength to deal with her difficult situation. I've been trying to write how immoral this can be. Essentially saying to stay in a harmful situation, or not help others in harmful situations, because we are supposed to learn. Learn what, exactly, I don't know. I guess it varies from person to person, but allowing yourself or others to be harmed--and I mean actually counseling them to stay in the harmful situation--because the Savior is "teaching" you, I think is immoral.

Each time I started writing, I remembered, she has been saying this for years. I do believe that life is difficult, but I do believe in finding joy in the day the Lord has made. That is within doctrine, even if we don't hear it much. Anyway, this time it has just hit me, she has been saying this for a very long time. Something in her life must be absolute crap and she sees herself essentially being trapped in it. I refrained from saying the atonement gave me strength when I realized I had to leave a difficult situation. I didn't say that, because it always makes her cry. I'm now realizing. I don't think she's crying for me and my lost soul. I think she's crying for her and her stuck soul. My heart is really going out to her.

I know what you mean. Someone I really care about is in a horrible marriage but I don't think she's ever even considered leaving. But her denial has rubbed off on her kids. I mentioned this to her and she did say they're working on it, but I still worry about them. Somehow, it's as if marriage is equated with the church - and the church with God - so leaving a marriage is a no-no, no matter. I understand that there are times to hang in there - and I realize too often many are too quick to throw in the towel, but there are also times when all would be healthier in divorce.

I understand that life is difficult, but I've noticed so many of the doctrines are used, either by the church or its members to just consign themselves to woe.

Yes, I see this - and it's evident by Utah leading the nation in anti-depressants. I wonder why. Maybe herd-mentality - peer pressure - can be overwhelming, and when the herd or group is dysfunctional, they feel the need to comply even when it's hurting them and those they love. Not that the church is all hell - but some teachings are - and it can be difficult to sift through to find the "pearls of wisdom" and to realize that it's not all-or-nothing.